OT - Educational Change of Pace ... College verses University

I got a offer of admission from a university here to do Mechanical Engineering. Their normal dead lines are June 20th, but it seems that they had a "after the last minute" change of heart on my application.

I guess they'll want to see my last college transcript, but that should be fine, pulled a A+ in Calculus and a B in Physics.

But do I accept or not, that is the nagging question. I already have a year to go in my college program (Mech Design), so I'd just be adding a extra 3 years of post-secondary studies. But I am on the fence, as I had expected to be outright told no, as the 2 other universities had told me that. Apparently my high school marks are outdated and I was not told till last minute that I'd need to retake the courses.

But I still apparently have the oppertunity. So I am thinking I should still go for it.

What do you all think?

PS. Milicron I know this is "way" off topic to give life advice, but I've gotten better advice here since I've joined then from people who claimed to have all the answers.

Dimitri

Here is what I do when I have an important choice to make. I get out a quarter and say heads is for one choice and tails is for the other choice. Then I flip the coin into the air and catch it. But I never look at it---I just pretend it landed on the one I was hoping for when it was in the air. And I always had one I was hoping would win.

changing schools

You did not say what degree you would get from your present school.
A 4 year bachelor degree is certainly more valuable than a 2 yr associate degree.
One caution, you should get the new college to review your past work and tell you IN WRITING how many of those courses they will honor with full credit towards a degree. Colleges love to discount your previous work or only let you satisfy a prerequisite so you have to take more courses from them, and of course pay more.
Best of luck, Hugh

bytewise said:

One caution, you should get the new college to review your past work and tell you IN WRITING how many of those courses they will honor with full credit towards a degree.

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Post-Secondary Institutions don't generally work together here on course by course basis. Which is fine, I am not expecting any transfer credits.

Still I'd be dropping out of the last year of a 3 year Mechanical Design "advance diploma" program to take Mechanical Engineering and get my bachelors degree. I already have my 2 year Tool & Die diploma from the first time I went to college.

Dimitri

Dimitri,
Depends upon what you want to do. If the program you are in now gets you where you want to go, go for it. If the ME degree is needed to get you there, or you really have this as a personal goal, I'm sure (from your posts) you will enjoy it: you have high native intelligence and obviously enjoy the subject matter.

From a resume standpoint, sometimes it's best to finish one thing. But if its a waste of time, you should drop that thing and move to what you want.

I had a BS, went back and got a PhD in engineering. It has opened some doors (as will the more prestigious ME degree you are considering.), and was a personal goal.

You can compute this on a dollars and sense basis, or on a personal satisfaction basis.

Damn, I'm waffling here. I guess I'm saying do the homework, and then see if following your heart is financially feasible. Could you talk your advanced design people into giving you the diploma for work you complete at university? Could you take a course or two at both places, and have them all count towards your first degree? Worth asking.

Good luck whichever path you choose.

J

Dimitri,

Do you have a pretty good idea of what you want to do for work?

The schooling that will help you get ready for that work the quickest is what you want.

I was fortunate at age 15 to be passionate about photography and knew I wanted to do that for my life's work.

Photo correspondence course in high school, worked in a photo shop summers, had my own dark room, took photos for school paper, US Army Photo School, Army photographer, degree in advertising photography, photographer for Northrop Ventura, photographer for an advertising photo studio, self employed commercial / advertising / industrial photographer, retired with a lot of happy memories of things I did and places I saw.

Paul

The primary purpose of going to college is "Learning How to Learn."

You build that Gold Plated Tool Box of learning how to learn, and the world can't stop you from succeeding. It doesn't even depend on what your major is. If you go all the way through your bachelor's degree and really like your work, then Oh boy for you. Really! You are working where you want to work.

If you finish your degree and after working in your field and you hate it, it doesn't matter. Why? Because you have your tool box of learning, and you can start over and in a relatively short time learn what you need to know for your new position. The one you love! You will succeed, because you'll not only be working in what you like to do, but you have pieces of your last major you can fold into this new position in which your peers don't have the exposure of.

It's a win, win situation.

Just learn how to learn! It will always come in handy if you use it.

Best regards,

Stanley Dornfeld

Part of the answer to this depends upon your assessment of the political-economic circumstances likely to prevail in Canada in the future.

There is a trend, at least in the US, towards "credentialism" - more and more jobs that require particular degrees or certifications, either by regulation or by practice.

So a BS ME might well open doors for you for a long time. But you have to guess how strong a pattern that will be where you live in the future.

(If you were in the US I'd tell you to go for the ME, period.)

Getting a ME degree on one side would be nice, due to the fact it will open doors, however, at the same time, it will delay myself another 4 years and put me in about 80,000$ worth of debt for these extra 4 years of education.

However if I keep doing my current program, I'll be able to start work next year, start a family and hopefully save some money for "toys" (ie a CNC mill and lathe) in a more "near future".

Its a tough call for me to make. I'm almost at the point of flipping a coin.

Dimitri

Where I work there are many technicians, drafters, and designers who are always saying they wish they would have stayed in school and gotten their B.S. A large portion of those guys probably don't have the smarts to actually get the degree, but either way they still regret it (some of them 20+ years later too).

I have my B.S. and M.S. in ME and I'm confident that I could find a job if mine dissapeared, even in this economy. And I don't regret getting either the B.S. or M.S., they were well worth it.

Got my B.A.Sc. (M.E.) 1970-1975. It took almost 5 years because I went through the coop program at the University of Waterloo, and one alternately studied for a term and then worked for a term. I took the final year in one fell swoop as I was married by then and 8 months of school didn't feel to bad!

In 1970 I had a good job with excellent prospects for the future with IBM in Don Mills, now part of Toronto. I had completed my tool & die/mold maker's apprenticeship and was working in the tool design department.

I figured that the foregone salary over the 5 years was more than $65000 which, at that time, would have bought you a verrrry nice house and car.

Formally resigned my job and went to Waterloo.

We all know what happened to the metalworking industry in Ontario in general since then; but IBM stopped making mechanical stuff eons ago. No idea what would have happened to me since I would have been much too young to retire at that time.

Upon graduation I joined Dominion Bridge in Lachine Quebec and never looked back. Career wise my worst time was 1992-1993 when I lost my job in Ottawa with Combustion Engineering due to the truly awful economic downturn in Canada at that time. C-E laid of half of the 360 or so employees in Ottawa but, they treated me well and I had no grounds for complaint.

Moved to my present address and took a range of contract positions with companies located from Oakville to Woodstock, picking up serious engineering analysis and consulting skills. Up to that time my experience was as project engineer, project manager, and manger of manufacturing engineering.

In 2005 I became self employed because I saw what was happening to older employees including Professional Engineers, in industry, and I wanted to start a career move that would see me well into retirement and provide some ready play money then.:-)).

I'm still at it and am very well paid for every hour of work that I choose to do.

Moral of the story: A degree in the hard sciences opens doors in the future which, now more than ever, is difficult to foresee. Just make darn sure, regardless of what path you choose to follow, that you gather progressively more complex experiences.

I know that I would not have been able to strike out on my own without all the experiences gathered right up to the time I said to myself: "To do this work I don't need the middleman (employer) to skim off the cream."

Good Luck!

Arminius

If you have your calculus and physics nailed then the degree in engineering should be a breeze. From your previous studies you will know things that an engineer will have to discover for himself after graduating such as the diameter of a 5/8" bolt. A question posed to me by a graduate engineer. So I'd suggest bite the bullet and go for the degree, yes you will be going into debt but your employment opportunities will be more. Student housing is available to married students and if the future holds a partner then that could be a plus especially if she is earning. The decision, of course, is yours to decide. Good luck whatever you decide, Peter

I have another, "better" university that I applied to that rejected me, but had told me with my marks in college, if I took a Grade 12 Chemistry class again, next year I'll be eligible to be accepted for their ME. I think I am going to delay it till next year if I go. As I really hate not finishing what I start.

Not only are they are better known University, they are more local, cuts my travel time to 20 minutes verses 1.5 hours.

By the way, I took Chemistry in high school, apparently I've been out of high school for so long that that the marks are "expired" according to Universities here.

Thanks guys.

Dimitri

Dimitri said:

Getting a ME degree on one side would be nice, due to the fact it will open doors, however, at the same time, it will delay myself another 4 years and put me in about 80,000$ worth of debt for these extra 4 years of education.

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I thought that in Canada, you got free health care, free tuition, and all the free beer you can drink. Don't go smashing my idyllic view of your wonderful country now.

Seriously, that kind of dough for tuition rivals our costs here in the States. I thought tuition was lower up there. No?

I had a scholarship for my graduate work (my company for my MS, and the college for my PhD), but even still, there are times when I think of what I might have been able to earn and save during all the time it took to complete my PhD work. Then I realize its water over the dam.

It sounds like you have a good path laid out for yourself. Good luck, finish strong.

Well, all told, my tutition, and required fees combined would be approximately 12,000$, add onto that 3,000$ for transportation costs (using public transit to get there, would require 2 different transit monthly passes) a year, that is already 15,000$, and I'd need to live and eat so that will add up the costs, so I figure about 20,000$ per year. Even with working full time in the summer months.

Dimitri

Dimitri said:

Well, all told, my tutition, and required fees combined would be approximately 12,000$, add onto that 3,000$ for transportation costs (using public transit to get there, would require 2 different transit monthly passes) a year, that is already 15,000$, and I'd need to live and eat so that will add up the costs, so I figure about 20,000$ per year. Even with working full time in the summer months.

Dimitri

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Well, tuition and related costs DO appear to be about the same there and here. Alas. At least there's the Canadian Perpetual Free Beer Fountains on every campus.

It sounds like you have a couple of good options, and have chosen the one that's best for you. Good luck.

bosleyjr said:

At least there's the Canadian Perpetual Free Beer Fountains on every campus.

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Well not to ruin your view on Canada. I won't confirm or deny the existence of beer fountains. But I'll tell you that being allergic to barley that I couldn't enjoy that perk even if it existed or not.

Funny story, the girlfriend bought some bed coverings for the bed to keep the heat down, one is a sheet of bamboo, and the other a "wheat woven" pillow covering on Sunday. Well the first day I didn't notice much, other then I slept better, but my eyes were still looking "off" from the lack of sleep due to the heat, Tuesday, I notice my eyes are completely red, but think its lack of sleep, Wednesday morning, I look like I had a full blown reaction to something, my eyes are swollen and the itch I had under my mustache turned out to be swollen too. At that point I had realized that the "wheat" stalks used were "barley wheat". Now its Saturday now and I look normal again.

Dimitri

I'd first spend some time taking classes on spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

I do relatively well in English classes (75-85% generally). Especially considering it is my 3rd language.

Dimitri

Greg, he doesn't do bad at all. English is a very difficult language to learn, I'm told.
Compare to one of his fellow Canadians :
Parting on the lathe enjoy the video - The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS

He'll be fine.