OT-steerng box/ball screw lube

magneticanomaly · Apr 8, 2013

I am expensively rebuilding the steering box on a little Yanmar tractor, because it is designed to accumulate water, and did.

Normal type manual ball-screw-rack and sector type box. 90 wt gear oil recommended.

Rain (I cover the tractor, but undetermined previous owners didn't) runs down steering column and into steering box. There is no drain plug in box, and no good way to add one as box is set into clutch housing.

My idea is to replace the filler plug with a zerk fitting, and completely fill the box AND column with NLGI 2 Moly EP chassis grease, until it leaks out around the steering shaft (where the water leaks in). If I periodically add grease, that should purge out any water that has leaked in.

Two questions. One, will the grease adequately work its way in, to lube the ball screw? Two, will the grease add a great deal of resistance to the steering in Winter----there is plenty of room for it to squish past the ball-nut-rack as it goes up and down? ( grease can't make Winter steering harder than the ice did!)

Thanks for any suggestions!

Garwood · Apr 8, 2013

I would use the grease used in front wheel drive CV axles. It's light and designed for similar use. I've filled old boxes with grease that were supposed to have 90WT and couldn't tell a difference.

JRIowa · Apr 8, 2013

NLGI #2 will be too thick for the recirculating ball. I'm thinking that the heaviest you'll want to go is an NLGI #0. The other contridiction is using a moly thickened grease around water. Not the best choice.

Instead of going through all that, why not just go with a marine lower end gear. Regular or synthetic, it's a little more resistant to water than what you're using now. Get one of the little plastic pumps and change it once a year.
JR

Mud · Apr 8, 2013

Maybe John Deere corn head grease - it's a #0 and I think it's OK w/water. It's stiff enough to not leak out of a housing with no seals but liquifies under pressure to get in where it needs to go. Popular in antique car steering boxes and enclosed u-joints where gear oil is called for but where it usually leaks out.

sticks · Apr 8, 2013

Once you settle on lube, is their room to hose-clamp a boot/deflector onto the shaft above the steering box to divert the trickle away from it? btw: I'd prefer a graphited to a moly grease if water gets in there ..

magneticanomaly · Apr 8, 2013

Thanks for the replies!

I doubt there is room for a simple seal or boot at top, without redesigning the top of column.

Can't change the lube without taking the tractor apart! That's why I want to fill it with something that water will not trickle through, and that I can flush UPWARD from the box. If oil were denser than water, there would be no problem.

What is the problem with MoS2 and water? I'd think graphite would cause galvanic corrosion if wet..

SVE Performance · Apr 8, 2013

No matter what water is heavier than oil/grease some will work itself to the bottom of the steering box no matter what you fill it with . Bill

Mark Rand · Apr 8, 2013

Calcium based greases are resistant to the soaps dissolving in water (NGL0 will do, but NGL2 might not make much difference for a steering column and box). If you can add a zerk at the bottom steering box to pump the system up and out when you suspect contamination, you may well survive for a century or so. If there's any way at all to make a boot or seal to prevent the water getting in the top of the column (even by trimming a bit off the top of the tube to make space), you'll preserve the system for less routine maintenance.

These thoughts are worth precisely what you paid for them

Regards
Mark

JRIowa · Apr 9, 2013

1. Moly isn't the problem, it's the disulfide. Mix that with a little water and under the right conditions, you end up with sulfuric acid. Probably a worse condition than you have now.

2. Calcium thickened greases have better moisture resistance than moly or lithium. Lubriplate 105 would be a decent choice. It's an NLGI 1.5.

3. The complex lithium greases have the best moisture resistance. Finding an NLGI 0 or 1 in a small quantity would be the problem.

Those are the reasons that I suggested a marine lower end lube. Moisture resistant, EP additives, easy to find. They make small plastic pumps to suck the lube out of the lower ends. Best woudl be to put a 1/16 pipe plug near the bottom of the unit. Here's you chance for fame and glory; invent a grease that water floats on

matt_isserstedt · Apr 9, 2013

I see the steering box is in the clutch housing. Can you "think outside of the box" (LOL) and run a simple steel tube down to a valve/petcock used to drain the reservoir remotely? This way you can drain and refill.

I was thinking also of a split flange (kinda like the pieces you get from a slugbuster chassis punch) you would tig weld to the shaft as sort of a drip-deflector. In basic terms its a sheetmetal disc drilled for the shaft size, then cut into equal semi-circles. Weld back together, then you have this rotating drip edge.

I have this same setup on my Farmall Super A since its an offset tractor with an angled shaft. However lots of room to drain and refill the box. I mitigate rainfall whenever possible via use of a tarp.

Mud · Apr 9, 2013

Can you "think outside of the box" (LOL) and run a simple steel tube down to a valve/petcock used to drain the reservoir remotely?

If that's not possible I've been picturing snaking a small tube down inside the box from the top, and periodically attaching a small hand vacuum pump to it to suction out the collected water from under the oil/grease. PITA, but better than disassembly.

magneticanomaly · Apr 9, 2013

I like matt's suggestion of a tube routed within clutch housing.That might be possible. I'll have to see if there is an inspection port. I suppose I COULD screw a crooked pipe nipple (to avoid driveshaft) into a new drain hole I would drill in bottom of box, and line it up with a clearance hole I would drill in bottom of clutch housing, to make an accessible drain. Too bad I have it back together already.

Sucking water out with flexible tube through filler hole would be a long shot, because I doubt the tube would find its way around the ball-nut to the bottom of the box.

I will be adding an "umbrella seal" to the top of column, under steering wheel.

So, is it a "fact' that NLGI #2 will not adequately lube a ball-screw, or will add enough resistance to screw up the ball circulation? I do not need 55 gal, or even 5 gal of NLGI #0, and doubt I can find it at reasonable price in tube or at NAPA

JRIowa · Apr 9, 2013

Lubriplate 105. If you hunt, you can find the 10 oz tube for less than $7.
Lubriplate Motor Assembly Lube Grease 10 Oz Tube C105 : Amazon.com : Automotive
JR

matt_isserstedt · Apr 9, 2013

magneticanomaly said:
So, is it a "fact' that NLGI #2 will not adequately lube a ball-screw, or will add enough resistance to screw up the ball circulation? I do not need 55 gal, or even 5 gal of NLGI #0, and doubt I can find it at reasonable price in tube or at NAPA

I don't think its 'fact' but the cost of being wrong seems high. #2 grease doesn't do well at "finding friction" meaning penetrating sliding spaces in my experience. Obviously oil would be better. #0 is closer, but still circumvent's the manufacturer's engineering development and validation.

I also don't like grease because its a magnet for abrasives and contamination particles and won't "release" them like oil will. For example, most industrial oils will simply "drop" particles via gravity in quiet spaces where they aren't entrained by flow or disturbances to the fluid level.

dian · Apr 9, 2013

if you fill the box with silicone grease, it wont let any water in. how the steering is going to behave or what it costs i dont know.

magneticanomaly · Apr 9, 2013

Looks more and more like the only good solution is to gamble on the umbrella seal or engineer the drain plug it should have had. Soft grease won't exclude water as well, enough silicone grease would cost more than the tractor and silicone grease is not a very good lubricant, grease won't drop particles.

jdavi581 · Apr 9, 2013

Willys jeeps have a Ross steering box that was supposed to be filled with gear lube and commonly (because of leaking) replaced with grease. This causes dead spots in the grease, and wear. My willys was this way. I would run the stock oil in it, suck out all the old oil with a turkey baster or the like, and make a rain deflector of some sort to prevent water from coming in.
Joe

welderboyjk · Apr 9, 2013

I've seen multiple replies suggesting to put an umbrella on the steering shaft which was what I initially thought of when I started reading your post. Since you are rebuilding the box currently (assuming you've got it apart now) is there no way to put a seal on the input side of the box? There are some rather "thin" seals available which don't need a much bigger O.D. than the shaft size. If the input end (neck) is too small can you possible turn the O.D. of the box and slide a sleeve over it which has a seal in the upper end? All you'd have to do is hold the sleeve concentric with the shaft. Could even silicone or hose clamp it in place so the O.D. of the box wouldn't even need to have a "pretty" surface.

atomarc · Apr 10, 2013

Park the tractor inside a shed. You can 'cut' any grade grease with the motor oil of your choice to make it the consistency you want. Any grade above a 'ought' will channel and not lube the worm or the sector. Throw a piece of visquene over the steering column...this is a simple problem to overcome....IMHO.

Stuart

crossthread · Apr 10, 2013

Ford 8N tractors are the same way. I have rebuilt my share of steering boxes. I sealed the last one up a bit better by driving valve stem packing (graphite impregnated string) around the shaft in the housing. Not sure how it is going to work but it looked pretty good and being graphite it didn't affect the steering force at all. All four of my tractors live outside and I do try to cover them but sometimes it just doesn't happen. I always keep a fresh boot on the shift lever (small price to pay for not having water in the hydraulic fluid) and use tie wraps around the boot to make them as water tight as possible.

OT-steerng box/ball screw lube

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