O/T Security Safe Recommendations

Looking for any recommendations for a home/office safe to store valuables, important paper files and small antique tools etc.; at least 1 hour fire, and waterproof a must.

Is it better to buy new, or used? Are all the "name brands" pretty much the same? Any standout's or generally recognized "best brands" I'm tilting towards something I can build into an under-counter cabinet concealed behind a raised panel or some such...24"-30" high...heavy construction with bolt down to concrete.

John,
I like my Fort Knox gun safe. It's supposed to be rated for 50 minutes at 1450degrees F. I think mine is the Defender series and is 41" wide and 5' tall. They do make smaller ones though. I think larger is better if you have the space. I also have a small fire resistant box (the kind you can get in Costco) inside the big safe with the important papers in it. We've had ours for over ten years and it looks like they have some improvements on their web site. I don't think they advertise waterproof (as in flooding) though. Here is a link to their fire protection claims.
http://www.ftknox.com/redesign/advantages/fireprotection.htm#flamechartA

Bill

Thxs Bill, I'm not quite as concerned about flooding as I would be about water from fire hoses...which often cause as much or more damage than fire...so that's really my main waterproof concern. I'll check those Fort Knox's out...looks like a nice rec

Ah, of course. Water from the fire hoses. Duh! The door on mine does not fit like a bank vault door does however there is a rubber gasket around the frame that is supposed to swell up in the heat and seal the door if I remember correctly. There are also one or two threaded holes in the top for lifting rings I think. I believe they are through holes but are easily plugged.

Bill

Mosler or Halls, 80+ years old, I gave several ant even the 150 yr old ones still have doors so air tight that you can't slam them as the escaping air slows it down. I think the way the steps on the doors and jams are made it would be hard to get water into them, and with 6 to 8 inch thick walls and doors they would far exceed the fire rating any modern gun safe has and there are lots of them in the size range you are talking about and they are very heavy, your average joe aint going to run off with it especially if you remove the wheels and bolt it to the floor.

John,
there are 3 types/designs of safe:
1. burglary safe (made of steel plate) protects against burglary only
2. fire safe (mineral wool, or equivalent wall material) protects vs fire (425 deg) only. (there are also data safes, max internal temp of 125 deg or so, but are much more expensive)
3. composite safe (high strength concrete). Gives some protection against fire, & against burglary (but is never as good as a fire safe is vs fire, etc)

As you describe, you want some fire protection, & some burglary protection, therefore you want a composite safe.

if you want one that is of substantial construction, i recommend at least a TL-15 of composite design. this will weigh over 600#, and have provision for bolting. the smallest size TL-15 will barely fit your size requirements (they tend to be big & heavy). A mechanical safe lock (specifically S&G brand, such as a 6730) is more reliable than any electronic one.

you noted water protection. there are no safes (that i am aware of) that are flood-type waterproof. please note with regard to water, that in a fire, the moisture within the walls of the safe turn into steam, and will saturate the paper inside the safe, thus keeping temp below 425 deg. data will melt under these conditions (unless you have a data safe)... so the contents will get at least moist, but will not ignite.

safes with a JIS or UL rating: the tests are different.

if you want a better quality safe, i recommend '(John) Tann' brand (made in England), a little bit pricy, but good quality throughout.

ihth