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OT- Can propane tanks retain volume but loose pressure after a decade of non use ?

Milacron

Administrator
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Location
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Still messing with a 200 gallon underground propane tank that provides fuel for the fireplace in my new used house. According to the gauge it has 50%* in tank but even with the tank regular valve wide open I can't get any gas to come out the pilot valve (and yes I pushed it in) on the fireplace itself. Last time the tank was used was nearly 10 years ago.....could that be the issue ? I presume one way to check for tank pressure would be to crack open the vent valve on the regular fill fitting ? Or would that test only work if the tank was full ?


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*Does the gauge need pressure for an accurate reading of the true amount of propane available ?
 
Still messing with a 200 gallon underground propane tank that provides fuel for the fireplace in my new used house. According to the gauge it has 50% in tank but even with the tank regular valve wide open I can't get any gas to come out the pilot valve (and yes I pushed it in) on the fireplace itself. Last time the tank was used was nearly 10 years ago.....could that be the issue ?

Ten years dormant, and around a hundred gallons of LPG?

Do not f**k with this, DIY-style!

Get a professional with his truckload of parts to do a full inspection and service - tank to consuming devices and all in between. Monitor him to insure it isn't just a lazy hit and run.

Expect at least a new valve or two. Tank may even be out of required test date - who knows how old it was as-of ten years ago?

Valves and regulators - most especially those die-cast in 'light metal' alloys can fall victim to slow corrosion and the fines it produces, (Sulfates of Zinc, commonly..) become blocked. Diaphragms, lines, and their seals all have finite lives, too.

Best to get a clean, fresh, start going forward, plus a chart with a maintenance schedule so this s**t is less likely to bitecherazz when you are no longer looking at it as closely.
 
Ten years and around a hundred gallons of LPG?

Do not f**k with this!

Get a professional with his truckload of parts to do a full inspection and service. Expect at least a new valve or two. Tank may even be out of required test date - who knows how old it was as-of ten years ago?

Valves and regulators - most especially those die-cast in 'light metal' alloys can fall victim to slow corrosion and the fines it produces, become blocked.
House built in 1994 so suspect tank was installed then as well.
 
Still messing with a 200 gallon underground propane tank that provides fuel for the fireplace in my new used house. According to the gauge it has 50%* in tank but even with the tank regular valve wide open I can't get any gas to come out the pilot valve (and yes I pushed it in) on the fireplace itself. Last time the tank was used was nearly 10 years ago.....could that be the issue ? I presume one way to check for tank pressure would be to crack open the vent valve on the regular fill fitting, yes ?


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*Does the gauge need pressure for an accurate reading of the true amount of propane available ?

The gauge is a float that goes up and down a guide with a twisted ribbon of flat stock hooked to the needle. No need for pressure to make it work. Yes you could have lost pressure. Call the propane fill truck, he can pressurize the tank. Have some soap solution and an old paint brush to check for leaks around all fittings and the gauge. The fill driver can pump it out if it leaks. Mine leaked around the gauge, the O ring was old and hard as rock.
 
House built in 1994 so suspect tank was installed then as well.

Safety of large tanks were never my official responsibility. Well - they wudda been, but First Log / Saigon Support Command just didn't HAVE them.

Regardless - I'd expect it to be well past its test dates.

Sorting that is yet-another of those sneaky "gotcha" costs on any "new" home, but the LPG supplier will have the needful capabilities available if not also under-same-roof.

Quarter-century out, at least ten years of it neglectful, and I'd expect you are looking at a whole new tank.

I MUCH prefer gas for cooking, but never did want it piped to this home, mains OR tanked. Risk, cost, and nuisance for too little gain that I'd rather avoid outright when traveling a lot and living alone to begin with.

Just me, but I'd probably have the bugger taken out. And left out.
 
I don't think you will have lost pressure in the tank. Pressure is a function of temperature. Most likely you need a new regulator, at 24 years its time for a new one anyway.

Is the tank valve open? Your tank may also have an excess flow valve installed. If so, opening the valve with the line empty will often close the valve. Close the tank valve, and then open slowly. If you hear a mechanical click, that is the excess flow valve closing. Continue closing and opening the tank valve until the line fills and the excess flow valve stays open. It may take a couple of tries.
 
I don't think you will have lost pressure in the tank. Pressure is a function of temperature. Most likely you need a new regulator, at 24 years its time for a new one anyway.

Is the tank valve open? Your tank may also have an excess flow valve installed. If so, opening the valve with the line empty will often close the valve. Close the tank valve, and then open slowly. If you hear a mechanical click, that is the excess flow valve closing. Continue closing and opening the tank valve until the line fills and the excess flow valve stays open. It may take a couple of tries.

He's talking about a gas fireplace pilot light not functioning properly. Small orifices, small lines, small valves and safety devices. Those are the first to go plugged from even the least bit of crud.

Whole system needs a through going-over ANYWAY if only from age and long-neglect, most recent years of its total age.

Probability is that the "big stuff" is still functional, even if not as safe as it should be.
 
Could be, Bill. But I took the description to be nothing propane has been used in 10 years, not just the fireplace. In which case there are no assurances as to where the problem lies.
 
Still messing with a 200 gallon underground propane tank that provides fuel for the fireplace in my new used house. According to the gauge it has 50%* in tank but even with the tank regular valve wide open I can't get any gas to come out the pilot valve (and yes I pushed it in) on the fireplace itself. Last time the tank was used was nearly 10 years ago.....could that be the issue ? I presume one way to check for tank pressure would be to crack open the vent valve on the regular fill fitting ? Or would that test only work if the tank was full ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

*Does the gauge need pressure for an accurate reading of the true amount of propane available ?

Dontcha love them pilot lights :). One of the tings that can happen is insects making nests in the gas line of the pilot light, they also say, if it was not lit for long time you have to bleed the air out the lines by holding it for 5 minutes or more. If nothing comes out it is most likely clogged with spider shit. You may want to take the line off after the ignitor and blow it out. The insects could not pass the closed valves :)....


dee
;-D
 
Propane vapor pressure is a function of temperature. If there is product in the tank, it will have pressure unless the product is cooled to approx -44F.

Either the tank level gauge is faulty or the regulator is jammed. Eirher way it's not likely to be something you can fix yourself.
 
Put some soapy water on the pilot orifice and push the button to see if anything is coming out. The float may be stuck and the tank empty. I had a spider build a nest over the main jet to a three burner furnace. The pilot was fine. so after I lit the pilot light in the fall the two burners lit and the middle? one dumped unburned gas into the burn zone until it filled it up and snuck over to a lit side and then "boom".
Bill D
 
Could be, Bill. But I took the description to be nothing propane has been used in 10 years, not just the fireplace. In which case there are no assurances as to where the problem lies.

True enough, and I say again - the ENTIRE rig wants look at.

Long, long before our tax dollars put me through the industrial gas and cryogenics course at Belvoir en-route to responsibilty for its supply and safety to two Army Corps areas, we had natural gas "in the family". Still do in a way with near-on 6,000 shares of EQT part of Mums Estate.

We ramped up from but the one gas well (1912) to FIVE operational, our two adjacent family farms. Free gas plus royalty money, but no electricity 'til 'spring of '53.

If it could be run off gas, we had it. Stationary engines, lighting with Welsbach mantles, cooking, air conditioning, heat, HW, and food storage. Six Arkla-Servel fridges under one roof alone (Jersey cows filled those).

Trust that Zinc compounds, most often with Sulfur, are a MAJOR cause of pilot light blockage, the past hunnert year and counting.

Also a primary reason galvanized steel lines became a no-no.

That still leaves the ZAMAK, though, and LOW sulfur fuels - Propane among them - are not yet NO sulfur fuels. Check the table low down on the first page here:

https://www.ourair.org/wp-content/uploads/sulfur01.pdf
 
In that amount of time the odorant could have separated from the propane leaving a liquid level in the tank when there's no gas left. I had a propane supplier that would always give me a shot of liquid odorant when he refilled my large above ground tank. After 20 years of bi-annual refills my level gauge read %30 when I couldn't maintain a pilot flame. Supplier came out, gassed off the remaining gas when it was low, popped off the guage and we looked down into the tank to see the liquid level - he took his cigarette out of his mouth and said company policy was to replace the tank, that he couldn't draw off what was in the tank ( something about static discharge in an explosive atmosphere, or some such). I got a new dry tank.
 
I think you can do some troubleshooting yourself.

That picture you posted from before showed a pretty darn corroded
valve & tubing.

First thing (I would do) is shut off the tank valve, and disconnect
the copper line going to the house.

Turn on the valve and see if anything comes out.
If something does, let it run for awhile, to see what does
come out.

Re-connect if good, and work your way towards the house.
 
In that amount of time the odorant could have separated from the propane leaving a liquid level in the tank when there's no gas left.
Lots of components are in commercial liquefied gases.

Mercaptan, old days, some newer Skunkifier presently, are used in miniscule amounts. REALLY miniscule, they are sooo effective at stinking.

If there was enough of them left in a sump to even SEE, you'd not be able to breathe in the same County.
 
Do you have a regulator at the house ? Post a pix, and a model number.

Now where is our resident Fisher propane regulator member ?

My gas regulator has a valve when pressure drops (or you shut off
the system) and try to turn it back on.
 
The gauge is a float that goes up and down a guide with a twisted ribbon of flat stock hooked to the needle. No need for pressure to make it work. Yes you could have lost pressure. Call the propane fill truck, he can pressurize the tank. Have some soap solution and an old paint brush to check for leaks around all fittings and the gauge. The fill driver can pump it out if it leaks. Mine leaked around the gauge, the O ring was old and hard as rock.

Why?

Propane has a boiling temperature of -40 deg F at sea level...so unless it's really freakin cold, I'm not quite understanding how you can have propane liquid in a closed vessel that does not generate pressure.

Not being rude, but it goes against all of my understanding of phase diagrams.
 
I think you can do some troubleshooting yourself.

That picture you posted from before showed a pretty darn corroded
valve & tubing
that picture was another tank at the shop with the same valve. That one was used by a previous tenant to run a large water heater for,washing entertainment tents, like for weddings and such...I personally have never needed it and disconnected it years ago. I should have it hauled off except I have the fantasy I will recoup the propane in there for forklift tanks somehow.
 
that picture was another tank at the shop with the same valve. That one was used by a previous tenant to run a large water heater for,washing entertainment tents, like for weddings and such...I personally have never needed it and disconnected it years ago. I should have it hauled off except I have the fantasy I will recoup the propane in there for forklift tanks somehow.

If.. you had a steady SOURCE of partial-charge tanks of that sort - much as waste cooking oil scavengers seek to set up - you could find a safe way.

As the shop isn't zoned nor licensed for it, the cost of doing it proper for a one-time doesn't make much economic sense. Better to have your LPG vendor dispose of it outright ... and make space for another rare-but-effective item for your MHE zoo?

That short-chassis pallet jack we used to "rotate" the 360-HBX inside the Penske box truck was covetiousness-making, most especially with the tougher task I had to UN-rotate the lathe once home, and without its help.

:)
 








 
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