Thread: OT: Co-workers that lie

Once again I think that Cruzin' has hit the nail on the head. There is a TLA (Three Letter Acronym) on this and it is CYA (Cover Your Ass-ests)

I would suggest that you not mention any problem of *any* kind to *anyone* on this subject. Bitchen creates 2 problems.

1) The guy will begin to regard you as an enemy
2) Other people in the Co will begin to regard you as a bitcher

Just lay low, CYA with full documentation of all interactions... no more conversations. Just email. If it ain't written down, it didn't happen.

And let this guy find himself into harm's way... it will happen, and likly sooner than you think.

KEEP YOUR NOSE CLEAN!

B

PS. No need to "inform" him about "misunderstandings". No need to talk about this at all!!!! Simply adopt this as a personal policy and you will find comfort and succcess.

I totally agree with not discussing anything with him or anyone else. It will not help anyone. The bosses won't believe/ won't help. Just keep written / recorded track of everything and nail him when you've got the proof.
Depending on what sort of damage you want to do, you could nail him on his first "mistake" and he gets a verbal or you could wait for the big one and see him leaving the CO.

I totally agree with not discussing anything with him or anyone else. It will not help anyone. The bosses won't believe/ won't help. Just keep written / recorded track of everything and nail him when you've got the proof.
Depending on what sort of damage you want to do, you could nail him on his first "mistake" and he gets a verbal or you could wait for the big one and see him leaving the CO.

I totally agree with not discussing anything with him or anyone else. It will not help anyone. The bosses won't believe/ won't help. Just keep written / recorded track of everything and nail him when you've got the proof.
Depending on what sort of damage you want to do, you could nail him on his first "mistake" and he gets a verbal or you could wait for the big one and see him leaving the CO.

BTW..... I notice you said that HE is doin some "bitchen".....

That might do one of two things.....

1) might make him the problem.... if upper management is smart.

2) Since the "if" in #1 is clearly never true, watch out that his "bitchen" does not turn into a "consistent drumbeat" saying that YOU are a problem.

Just repeating "so and so is a real problem" enough makes it true in the corporate world.

The problem for you is that decisions may get made as to what to do about the "problem" (you). After the decision is made, you will find out about it in the severance meeting where they let you go.

At that time NOBODY cares one worthless squashed penny for the documentation you have, and you can't get at it anyhow, since they have already escorted you out to talk to HR about COBRA benefits.

BTW..... I notice you said that HE is doin some "bitchen".....

That might do one of two things.....

1) might make him the problem.... if upper management is smart.

2) Since the "if" in #1 is clearly never true, watch out that his "bitchen" does not turn into a "consistent drumbeat" saying that YOU are a problem.

Just repeating "so and so is a real problem" enough makes it true in the corporate world.

The problem for you is that decisions may get made as to what to do about the "problem" (you). After the decision is made, you will find out about it in the severance meeting where they let you go.

At that time NOBODY cares one worthless squashed penny for the documentation you have, and you can't get at it anyhow, since they have already escorted you out to talk to HR about COBRA benefits.

BTW..... I notice you said that HE is doin some "bitchen".....

That might do one of two things.....

1) might make him the problem.... if upper management is smart.

2) Since the "if" in #1 is clearly never true, watch out that his "bitchen" does not turn into a "consistent drumbeat" saying that YOU are a problem.

Just repeating "so and so is a real problem" enough makes it true in the corporate world.

The problem for you is that decisions may get made as to what to do about the "problem" (you). After the decision is made, you will find out about it in the severance meeting where they let you go.

At that time NOBODY cares one worthless squashed penny for the documentation you have, and you can't get at it anyhow, since they have already escorted you out to talk to HR about COBRA benefits.

Hy,
an excel log with three lines concerning what you´ve done, what was decided and any odd thing that happened every day can be a jobsaver.

This should go hand in hand with your emails, especially when you work across department "borders". Don´t make a secret out of it, let them know you have the log.
It´s nice when "samples keep disappearing" from someones table or "he never got them" whenever you ask and you can say "I sent those three to you 4 weeks ago."
It´s nice when they want to nail you down for missing a deadline and you can say: "Boys, I adressed this 3 month ago in our meeting and noone was intersted...even when I asked you twice, xx said it is no problem. One moment, I can look up the email I sent you."

And I would talk to his boss anyhow, but not in an agressive manner, more something like " we get along quite well, but sometimes there are misunderstandings, you know." Not in an official way, maybe over a cup of coffee. In case this goes to a full blown problem, the boss was aware about it before.
Bosses don´t like chitchat, but also they dislike if there´s a problem and they hear about in from their boss for the first time when there is rising trouble.
Written words tend to change the attitude of people from "not my problem" to "could be my big problem."

Cheers,
Johann

Hy,
an excel log with three lines concerning what you´ve done, what was decided and any odd thing that happened every day can be a jobsaver.

This should go hand in hand with your emails, especially when you work across department "borders". Don´t make a secret out of it, let them know you have the log.
It´s nice when "samples keep disappearing" from someones table or "he never got them" whenever you ask and you can say "I sent those three to you 4 weeks ago."
It´s nice when they want to nail you down for missing a deadline and you can say: "Boys, I adressed this 3 month ago in our meeting and noone was intersted...even when I asked you twice, xx said it is no problem. One moment, I can look up the email I sent you."

And I would talk to his boss anyhow, but not in an agressive manner, more something like " we get along quite well, but sometimes there are misunderstandings, you know." Not in an official way, maybe over a cup of coffee. In case this goes to a full blown problem, the boss was aware about it before.
Bosses don´t like chitchat, but also they dislike if there´s a problem and they hear about in from their boss for the first time when there is rising trouble.
Written words tend to change the attitude of people from "not my problem" to "could be my big problem."

Cheers,
Johann

Hy,
an excel log with three lines concerning what you´ve done, what was decided and any odd thing that happened every day can be a jobsaver.

This should go hand in hand with your emails, especially when you work across department "borders". Don´t make a secret out of it, let them know you have the log.
It´s nice when "samples keep disappearing" from someones table or "he never got them" whenever you ask and you can say "I sent those three to you 4 weeks ago."
It´s nice when they want to nail you down for missing a deadline and you can say: "Boys, I adressed this 3 month ago in our meeting and noone was intersted...even when I asked you twice, xx said it is no problem. One moment, I can look up the email I sent you."

And I would talk to his boss anyhow, but not in an agressive manner, more something like " we get along quite well, but sometimes there are misunderstandings, you know." Not in an official way, maybe over a cup of coffee. In case this goes to a full blown problem, the boss was aware about it before.
Bosses don´t like chitchat, but also they dislike if there´s a problem and they hear about in from their boss for the first time when there is rising trouble.
Written words tend to change the attitude of people from "not my problem" to "could be my big problem."

Cheers,
Johann

Is he a union trained electrician. and is your state a state that requires a electrician license.

If this is the case that is the problem.

Most states allow non electricians with the proper training to work on specialised equipment and union electricians do not like this. The Union wants only electrician playing with wires.

Is he a union trained electrician. and is your state a state that requires a electrician license.

If this is the case that is the problem.

Most states allow non electricians with the proper training to work on specialised equipment and union electricians do not like this. The Union wants only electrician playing with wires.

Is he a union trained electrician. and is your state a state that requires a electrician license.

If this is the case that is the problem.

Most states allow non electricians with the proper training to work on specialised equipment and union electricians do not like this. The Union wants only electrician playing with wires.

Jim, I'm an industrial maintenance tech and often do industrial electrical work including quite a bit of PLC programming.

The workplace is an interesting place. I have worked with an engineer in the past that got under my skin. He would criticise the way I would do a project but never offer direction as to what was wrong with it or offer advice. He was an engineer, I was a tech. I tried your option 1 and 2 with little to no success. I felt better that I talked to him directly and put my cards on the table with him -rather than walk around with a burr in my saddle. After a month or so things were the same. I talked to my boss (his boss as well) and nothing ever changed. Things never realy changed and I went on. Eventualy everyone else saw this was the way he was.

I'm at a different factory now and have learned to take behind the back criticism with a grain of salt and make a mental note of it. If my boss is happy, I'm happy. My job is to make him look good. Now for the guy that is not always on the up and up- other people are probably also seeing this.

Along with this, I have taken note that some of these people use these jabs as a way to climb the ladder. Sometimes they might have a general idea on what they are talking about, but put a slant on a comment to make others look bad. Watch your back and keep your ears open for the negative.

Electricians and maintenance guys always have a strong opinion. The ones that are relied on are generaly alpha males (my opinion) and tend to protect there teritory. Is it possible that you are "playing in this guys yard" or "cooking in his kitchen" and he is the one that supports the project later?

I have changed into one of these A type personalities with my present job. I'm the guy that gets called at two in the morning to come to the plant and trouble shoot. I'm also the guy that gets irritated with shody work or repairs done in my area of responsiblity. I'm also the guy that gets called to the plant managers office when things aren't working to his expectaion. When the corparate guys (engineers) come to the plant and start changing things I can tend to voice an opinion. I like to be in control and drive. I'm a bit of a prefectionists as well, so when things aren't up to my expectaions I can tend to be critical.

If I were you I would make sure that your work speaks for itself, be open to opinions or ideas, and always watch your back. Try and figure out wht this guys personallity is. If he is anything like me- he probably does have an opinion. If this guy doesn't have full confidence in his work or abilities -he may be looking for a reason to make excusses for why there are troubles. I would not make it an issue with his boss yet unless he starts to get very public with his opinions. This is when the documentation that the others spoke of will come into play. Good luck.

Luke

Jim, I'm an industrial maintenance tech and often do industrial electrical work including quite a bit of PLC programming.

The workplace is an interesting place. I have worked with an engineer in the past that got under my skin. He would criticise the way I would do a project but never offer direction as to what was wrong with it or offer advice. He was an engineer, I was a tech. I tried your option 1 and 2 with little to no success. I felt better that I talked to him directly and put my cards on the table with him -rather than walk around with a burr in my saddle. After a month or so things were the same. I talked to my boss (his boss as well) and nothing ever changed. Things never realy changed and I went on. Eventualy everyone else saw this was the way he was.

I'm at a different factory now and have learned to take behind the back criticism with a grain of salt and make a mental note of it. If my boss is happy, I'm happy. My job is to make him look good. Now for the guy that is not always on the up and up- other people are probably also seeing this.

Along with this, I have taken note that some of these people use these jabs as a way to climb the ladder. Sometimes they might have a general idea on what they are talking about, but put a slant on a comment to make others look bad. Watch your back and keep your ears open for the negative.

Electricians and maintenance guys always have a strong opinion. The ones that are relied on are generaly alpha males (my opinion) and tend to protect there teritory. Is it possible that you are "playing in this guys yard" or "cooking in his kitchen" and he is the one that supports the project later?

I have changed into one of these A type personalities with my present job. I'm the guy that gets called at two in the morning to come to the plant and trouble shoot. I'm also the guy that gets irritated with shody work or repairs done in my area of responsiblity. I'm also the guy that gets called to the plant managers office when things aren't working to his expectaion. When the corparate guys (engineers) come to the plant and start changing things I can tend to voice an opinion. I like to be in control and drive. I'm a bit of a prefectionists as well, so when things aren't up to my expectaions I can tend to be critical.

If I were you I would make sure that your work speaks for itself, be open to opinions or ideas, and always watch your back. Try and figure out wht this guys personallity is. If he is anything like me- he probably does have an opinion. If this guy doesn't have full confidence in his work or abilities -he may be looking for a reason to make excusses for why there are troubles. I would not make it an issue with his boss yet unless he starts to get very public with his opinions. This is when the documentation that the others spoke of will come into play. Good luck.

Luke

Jim, I'm an industrial maintenance tech and often do industrial electrical work including quite a bit of PLC programming.

The workplace is an interesting place. I have worked with an engineer in the past that got under my skin. He would criticise the way I would do a project but never offer direction as to what was wrong with it or offer advice. He was an engineer, I was a tech. I tried your option 1 and 2 with little to no success. I felt better that I talked to him directly and put my cards on the table with him -rather than walk around with a burr in my saddle. After a month or so things were the same. I talked to my boss (his boss as well) and nothing ever changed. Things never realy changed and I went on. Eventualy everyone else saw this was the way he was.

I'm at a different factory now and have learned to take behind the back criticism with a grain of salt and make a mental note of it. If my boss is happy, I'm happy. My job is to make him look good. Now for the guy that is not always on the up and up- other people are probably also seeing this.

Along with this, I have taken note that some of these people use these jabs as a way to climb the ladder. Sometimes they might have a general idea on what they are talking about, but put a slant on a comment to make others look bad. Watch your back and keep your ears open for the negative.

Electricians and maintenance guys always have a strong opinion. The ones that are relied on are generaly alpha males (my opinion) and tend to protect there teritory. Is it possible that you are "playing in this guys yard" or "cooking in his kitchen" and he is the one that supports the project later?

I have changed into one of these A type personalities with my present job. I'm the guy that gets called at two in the morning to come to the plant and trouble shoot. I'm also the guy that gets irritated with shody work or repairs done in my area of responsiblity. I'm also the guy that gets called to the plant managers office when things aren't working to his expectaion. When the corparate guys (engineers) come to the plant and start changing things I can tend to voice an opinion. I like to be in control and drive. I'm a bit of a prefectionists as well, so when things aren't up to my expectaions I can tend to be critical.

If I were you I would make sure that your work speaks for itself, be open to opinions or ideas, and always watch your back. Try and figure out wht this guys personallity is. If he is anything like me- he probably does have an opinion. If this guy doesn't have full confidence in his work or abilities -he may be looking for a reason to make excusses for why there are troubles. I would not make it an issue with his boss yet unless he starts to get very public with his opinions. This is when the documentation that the others spoke of will come into play. Good luck.

Luke

I was wondering if posting this was a good idea.

WOW, some great feedback here. Yes, I'm a verbal kinda guy that needs to start keeping things documented. Using email for documentation is an excellent idea which I can start using right away.

The theories you guys have percieved about this guy are all correct. Even though I have been with the company for 30 years I was transferred into this division 2 years ago. Therefore, I'm kinda like the new kid on the block.

In the future, in the spirit of teamwork and peace in the family, I'll try to have him do all the wiring and programming and put my personal needs last. If for some reason he cannot do the work, I'll have him tell me exactly what to do and inspect my work when complete. Document communication via email and my butt should be covered. He should be happy and the company will have their gizmo working.

Thanks,
Jim

[ 12-14-2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: JimGlass ]

I was wondering if posting this was a good idea.

WOW, some great feedback here. Yes, I'm a verbal kinda guy that needs to start keeping things documented. Using email for documentation is an excellent idea which I can start using right away.

The theories you guys have percieved about this guy are all correct. Even though I have been with the company for 30 years I was transferred into this division 2 years ago. Therefore, I'm kinda like the new kid on the block.

In the future, in the spirit of teamwork and peace in the family, I'll try to have him do all the wiring and programming and put my personal needs last. If for some reason he cannot do the work, I'll have him tell me exactly what to do and inspect my work when complete. Document communication via email and my butt should be covered. He should be happy and the company will have their gizmo working.

Thanks,
Jim

[ 12-14-2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: JimGlass ]

I was wondering if posting this was a good idea.

WOW, some great feedback here. Yes, I'm a verbal kinda guy that needs to start keeping things documented. Using email for documentation is an excellent idea which I can start using right away.

The theories you guys have percieved about this guy are all correct. Even though I have been with the company for 30 years I was transferred into this division 2 years ago. Therefore, I'm kinda like the new kid on the block.

In the future, in the spirit of teamwork and peace in the family, I'll try to have him do all the wiring and programming and put my personal needs last. If for some reason he cannot do the work, I'll have him tell me exactly what to do and inspect my work when complete. Document communication via email and my butt should be covered. He should be happy and the company will have their gizmo working.

Thanks,
Jim

[ 12-14-2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: JimGlass ]

Usualy I'd go with #3. Just document some of the important things to cover yourself. You can also have fun with it sometimes, get him at his own game. Just make sure he doesn't screw up your work and that if he screws up his part of the work he doesn't put it on you.