D1-6 Chuck ID and Renovation Questions

bjorn toulouse · Jul 4, 2012

I bought a Sheldon R15 lathe last weekend (yeah, I know, no pics it didn't happen

) and will be moving it to its new home this weekend. In the mean time, I do have pics of the extra 3 chucks (a relatively clean Buck 8" adjust-tru is on the lathe), a 5C collet closer, a hell-for-stout Globe boring bar holder and a nice, chunky 4-way tool post.

Here's the pics, questions follow,

The 12" 4jaw is a Cushman, the 10" 4jaw is of unknown mfg., and the 10" 3jaw is a Buck adjust-tru.

Does anyone have a clue as to the possible maker of the 10" 4jaw? I cannot see any markings on the chuck, it only has 4 cam lock pins on the back plate (same pin size and circle diameter as the others), and the square on the jaw wrench measures .280" across the flats.

These chucks, and the lathe itself, have been unused in an unheated NE oHIo garage for the past 5 or so years, so there is considerable surface oxidation to be dealt with. My biggest concern is the 10" Buck. The chuck is solid. I have been soaking it with PB Blaster and tapping on the jaws with a big no-bounce hammer

Is there a better way to go about this? I have done a little scraping on the faces of the chucks with a stout gasket scraper, and some of the lighter surface rust is cleaning up, but there are patches on the Buck that are pretty bad.

Any tips will be greatly appreciated!

Thanx,

Rex

James H Clark · Jul 4, 2012

Rex : I have good luck with Kroil. Best thing I've found. Good luck.

JH

smdubovsky · Jul 4, 2012

From a fellow R15 owner: Welcome to the club!

1) to get the chuck unstuck: heat + kroil. You'll prob want to disassemble it to clean and regrease the scroll/pinion anyway. Take the 6 inner bolts out and the front/rear halves of the chuck will seperate. I recently did a buck 6-jaw that I sold here. I can dig up and send pics if you email me. After apart & degreased, I'd put it in a bucket of Evapo-rust for an evening. You'll be amazed.

2) Im VERY interested in getting some info on that 5C closer. I have a Royal that I need to adapt. Is that a royal too? The toothed part that sits on the end of the spindle is interesting. It goes over the outside? I would have thought w/ the large spindle ID they would have chosen to slip fit the inside. Where does the rear rod attach? To the cover or does it go through to something inside? Inquiring minds want to know

3) If you need manuals, email me...

Ray Behner · Jul 4, 2012

Aw Rex, those Sheldons ain't no good. I thought you told me it was a South Bend. Oh wait, I have one of them as well. Yer gonna love it!
If you can get her apart like sm says, maybe we could glass bead blast the parts. Don't know if that's a good idea or not. Seems better than scraping with a hatchet! See what others say. I did grind (toolpost) a chuck for a guy. It was a new chuck that suffered the same ills as yours. It didn't look new when I was finished, but pretty damn good compared to the rusted mess it once was. Got the come-a-long all lubed up and ready. Got a lot of cribbing and crap too. Skates are ready to race!

Mud · Jul 4, 2012

smdubovsky said:
1) to get the chuck unstuck: heat + kroil. You'll prob want to disassemble it to clean and regrease the scroll/pinion anyway. Take the 6 inner bolts out and the front/rear halves of the chuck will seperate. I recently did a buck 6-jaw that I sold here. I can dig up and send pics if you email me. After apart & degreased, I'd put it in a bucket of Evapo-rust for an evening. You'll be amazed.

+1 for both Kroil and Evapo Rust.

The 10" 4 jaw resembles very much a L-W Chuck Co. 8" 4 jaw I bought new years ago.

bjorn toulouse · Jul 4, 2012

James H Clark said:
Rex : I have good luck with Kroil. Best thing I've found. Good luck.

JH

Thanx, Jim, I ordered some today!

smdubovsky said:
From a fellow R15 owner: Welcome to the club!

1) to get the chuck unstuck: heat + kroil. You'll prob want to disassemble it to clean and regrease the scroll/pinion anyway. Take the 6 inner bolts out and the front/rear halves of the chuck will seperate. I recently did a buck 6-jaw that I sold here. I can dig up and send pics if you email me. After apart & degreased, I'd put it in a bucket of Evapo-rust for an evening. You'll be amazed.

2) Im VERY interested in getting some info on that 5C closer. I have a Royal that I need to adapt. Is that a royal too? The toothed part that sits on the end of the spindle is interesting. It goes over the outside? I would have thought w/ the large spindle ID they would have chosen to slip fit the inside. Where does the rear rod attach? To the cover or does it go through to something inside? Inquiring minds want to know

3) If you need manuals, email me...

Thanx, SM, is there a secret Sheldon handshake I need to learn?

Got Kroil ordered and did a little reading on the Evapo-Rust site, looks interesting. All of the chucks are going to be disassembled, cleaned and relubed (eventually). I downloaded a disassembly manual from the Buck site.

As far as I know, the collet closer is a Sheldon accessory (could definitely be by Royal). Yes, the bell shape end goes over the OD of the spindle tube and has 3 set screws. There is a bracket bolted to the lathe, but I won't have any pics until this weekend.

Good to go with manuals, lathe came with R Series Instruction manual, Parts manual, and a full line Lathes, Options and Accessories catalog with 3/1968 Price List.

Ray Behner said:
Aw Rex, those Sheldons ain't no good. I thought you told me it was a South Bend.

If you can get her apart like sm says, maybe we could glass bead blast the parts. Don't know if that's a good idea or not.

Hey, Ray, yeah, I was too slow on the draw for the SB and had to settle for this beastie!
Too bad, the ways on the SB were well broken in.

See you Friday!

Mud said:
+1 for both Kroil and Evapo Rust.

The 10" 4 jaw resembles very much a L-W Chuck Co. 8" 4 jaw I bought new years ago.

Thanx, Mud, L-W Chuck Co. Toledo, oHIo, must be out of biz, Google turned up a couple of mentions, but no Co. web site. One thing for certain, it is definitely a nice unit.

Rex

JRIowa · Jul 5, 2012

It looks similar to an L&W, but 0.280" is 7mm. L&W was out of business before metrification. If the SHCS are metric, I'll go with Pratt/Burnerd or Rohm.
JR

bjorn toulouse · Jul 5, 2012

JRIowa said:
It looks similar to an L&W, but 0.280" is 7mm. L&W was out of business before metrification. If the SHCS are metric, I'll go with Pratt/Burnerd or Rohm.
JR

Thanx, JR, I checked the bolts.....3/8" hex.
While I was at it, I did a little more scraping/wire brushing and found the info.
It's a Buck #1310.

I'm still curious as why there are only 4 cam lock pins on the mount, no provisions for the other 2.

Rex

smdubovsky · Jul 5, 2012

bjorn toulouse said:
I'm still curious as why there are only 4 cam lock pins on the mount, no provisions for the other 2.

Are the 4 evenly spaced in a diamond/square pattern or like a crowsfoot (3 evenly spaced + an extra stuck between them)? The former would be impossible to mount. The latter would really only need 3 pins. Lots of smaller D1-6 chucks only use 3 pins in an even triangular pattern. But why there is an extra 'middle finger' pin is a complete mystery to me too. It would affect high speed balance at a minimum.

bjorn toulouse · Jul 5, 2012

smdubovsky said:
Are the 4 evenly spaced in a diamond/square pattern or like a crowsfoot (3 evenly spaced + an extra stuck between them)? The former would be impossible to mount. The latter would really only need 3 pins. Lots of smaller D1-6 chucks only use 3 pins in an even triangular pattern. But why there is an extra 'middle finger' pin is a complete mystery to me too. It would affect high speed balance at a minimum.

The pattern is: 2 pins, skip one, 2 pins, skip one. The existing pins form the corners of a rectangle.
I'll shoot a pic when I get a minute....gotta head to work.

Rex

smdubovsky · Jul 5, 2012

LOL. Thats the one combination I hadn't thought of. Thats really odd. Though the pins are only there to pull the very short (and ACCURATE!) taper and flange up against the spindle. They don't locate anything themselves. So if skipping one hole in three locations doesn't cause a flex problem w/ a 3-pin D1-6 chuck I don't see why skipping it in only 2 locations wouldn't work just the same (or even better). Learn something everyday.

N Sekulic · Jul 5, 2012

I have a Skinner 8" D1-6 4-Jaw with this odd configuration ...

James H Clark · Jul 5, 2012

Bjorn: This is not too uncommon on small chucks in some shops. Sometimes its because one pin was removed or never existed. This is better than having five pins (better balanced for weight and pull on pins) or the boss was too tight to spring for more pins. Some very small chucks are only drilled and tapped for three.

JH

bjorn toulouse · Jul 6, 2012

N Sekulic said:
I have a Skinner 8" D1-6 4-Jaw with this odd configuration ...

Yeah, N, that's the exact pin configuration as the Buck! The back plate is a little different, but same pin layout.

Thanx for posting the pic.

Rex

Philabuster · Jul 6, 2012

N Sekulic said:
I have a Skinner 8" D1-6 4-Jaw with this odd configuration ...

View attachment 54813

If you look more closely, the reason there is only 4 pins is because the 'missing' two pins would sit right on top of the plug for the movable jaw.

steve-l · Jul 6, 2012

For rust removal, I use a plastic barrel filled with muratic acid. It works a treat. The acid doesn't touch solid metal. Of course pits will be revealed as the rust is consumed, but pits do not affect accuracy, abrasion does. I leave the parts for 24hrs rinse thoroughly with clear water. Then I place the wet parts in another barrel of water and baking soda for an hour. Rince again, blow dry and oil.

steve-l · Jul 6, 2012

On another note, be sure to degrease first. If you are concerned about appearance, take a chip, it hurts nothing.

bjorn toulouse · Jul 6, 2012

Thanx for the tip on Muratic acid, Steve, I had forgotten that I have a couple of gallons in the garage.

Pic of the back of the Buck 10" 4jaw.

Rex

smdubovsky · Jul 6, 2012

steve-l said:
For rust removal, I use a plastic barrel filled with muratic acid. It works a treat. The acid doesn't touch solid metal.

Uhh, I don't know what chemistry you were taught over there in Germany

but Hydrochloric acid VERY MUCH touches solid metal. Fe + 2HCl = FeCl2 + H2.

N Sekulic · Jul 6, 2012

Your welcome Bjorn ... I have an R15 as well ... If you purchased the one thats been on CL and Ebay out here in Ohio for the past few months, Im a bit jealous! Looked damn good! Enjoy!!

Thanks Philabuster ... That makes sense!!

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