OT - Milacron: please consider adding a forum for Moderators

[Cal Haines]

Milacron,

I'm posting here because I don't really have any other way to contact you. I'm the moderator of the Monarch Forum.

I think we need a forum for moderators to communicate with one another and with the site administrators. This should be a moderators only forum. The forum should be visited daily by an administrator with site-wide privileges.

The forum would allow moderators to help each other with forum problems and to bring problems beyond their control to the attention of site admin. Here are some of the issues that come up:

• Report site problems (for example, server errors that only show up on particular web browsers).
• Report problems with the moderation interface (for example, thread open/close tool doesn't work correctly).
• Report user account problems (i.e. user can't log in or can't post).
• Request creation of a new forum or a sub-forum in an existing forum.
• Request contact e-mail for a forum member whose inbox is full.
• Request that a member be banned from the site.
• Report a spam account.
• Suggest changes to the site.
• Discuss issues such as how to best deal with dead links to Photobucket images.

Thanks,

Cal

 

[gregormarwick]

I have absolutely no horse in this race, nor any issue with any moderator on this site, but something I'd like to mention:

A closed moderator subforum that is offlimits to the general userbase is a good way to seed distrust of the moderation team and I have seen several other forums that I have participated in over the years falter as a direct consequence of doing the same as you are suggesting.

In no way suggesting that could or would happen here, just something to be mindful of. The bulk of the things you mention could be discussed openly on the general forum just the same (like they are currently...)

 

[DDoug]

The bulk of the things you mention could be discussed openly on the general forum just the same (like they are currently...)

Agreed, as I have suggested as naseum, a "Off Topic Rumpus Room" sub forum
could be used for all the above needs, as well as a trash can.

 

[JLarsson]

The problem with open discussion of site administration and moderation issues among moderators is that so many of those discussions will be plagued with the irrelevant, distracting, and even inane comments from people who are neither moderators nor administrators. There are a few members playing amateur or self-appointed moderator already, that - in my opinion - muddy the waters for those who are (or should be) performing the moderating duties.

I think a moderator builds his trust with his actual moderation, not with (unnecessarily) open discussion of what his duties are.

 

[thermite]

VB has the tools for an "invisible" bespoke-purpose group forum for that very purpose.
It isn't really a "forum" in the conventional sense - just an administrative toolset.

As to the 'suspicious" if not open to the public behaviour?

Horse puckey.

You want the right to watch Walmart, Safeway, or a Red Cross relief effort off load trucks, carry cash to the bank, or place purchase orders, too? Go hire-on there, then.

You will still only see what YOUR part of the job involves.

Most things in life have a need of compartmentalized "back office" support to allow clear and NOT interfered with - communications between and amongst the "doers", not under the eye of bleachers full of spectators.

"WE" "passengers" who are also contributors to, and beneficiaries of, PM content, do not con this vessel.

Don and his team provided the hull, the engines, and the fuel for it.

They have the con of it. Always have had.

Why NOW presume rights to read their email, tap their phones, sniff their armpits, underwear, or toilet seats and second guess their motives?

What Cal has asked for is sane, efficient, and may already exist, needing but a subordinate or sibling level activated.

This is not a new need that began with PM.

 

[JST]

I think it is a good idea. If folks insist, it could be read-only to non moderators, although that may be problematic.

I have a thread that seems corrupted in the RPC forum, and I do not know the best place to report the problems. Obviously the moderator forum is the place, only there isn't one.....

 

[thermite]

I think it is a good idea. If folks insist, it could be read-only to non moderators, although that may be problematic.

I have a thread that seems corrupted in the RPC forum, and I do not know the best place to report the problems. Obviously the moderator forum is the place, only there isn't one.....

Whilst I support the idea, though - from experience - CLOSED, not public - I am also puzzled.

Don has for quite some time had "superuser" "Practicalman" on the job. Salaried, even, and with technical and DB glitch or defense against spam or outright attacks on the site as priorities.

He has several times published his OWN email. His phone number is not hard to find, either.

Moderators who have not already done so should put all that on a Post-It note next to their keyboard, and the immediate problem can be diminished - I'd bet rather rapidly, as Practicalman can call on other specialized resources when need be.

Meanwhile - Jerry? You probably have a browser cache glitch.

The posts in the thread you reported earlier as not being able to see are visible from other seats, several browser brands, and logged-in or not. Sorry I had wandered-off for another nap without first so advising.

 

[carbonbl]

Having a private moderator forum (regular members cannot post or view) is pretty commonplace and a good thing, I would think. I'm surprised PM doesn't have something like this already. As someone who has posted in/read many online forums, I view gregormarwick's experience of widespread distrust of a private moderator forum as symptomatic of some other, deeper issues in a forum's culture or moderation team. I don't see PM as susceptible to that kind of conflict.

Kind of a separate thing, but I agree with having a general off-topic forum (most definitely separate from the mod forum and from the current General forum). Currently, it can seem arbitrary which OT threads get removed and which stay in the "General" forum. Besides- I'm reading this forum for machinist knowledge, not info about bikes, cell phones, or CPAP headgear (no offense ). Maybe renaming this forum to "General Machinist Discussion" and having a new "Off-Topic Chit-chat" forum would work? This is really common in other specialty interest forums- and I don't think PM has anything to lose by following the herd in this case.

 

[Cole2534]

Agreed, as I have suggested as naseum, a "Off Topic Rumpus Room" sub forum
could be used for all the above needs, as well as a trash can.

We need this.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

 

[thermite]

We need this.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

I thot Faceplant and Bitter and Yew-Toob were invented to cover all that trash so PM didn't HAVE to?

Why compete any further in that space than we do already? How much extra work can Gordon STAND without keeling over?

Mind.. given the choice of being run-off to share space with rooshin troll factory's, orange haired puffballs and lard arse (alternate)reality stars?

Might be a good incentive to clean up our acts and stay to home?

 

[tomjelly]

If making any changes why not also make the toyoda forum into a brother forum and move all the brother posts there...

 

[thermite]

If making any changes why not also make the toyoda forum into a brother forum and move all the brother posts there...

Some remodeling might be due, but it gets hairy, example:

- Brand names and their ownership? Horse traded, merged, de-merged, gone tits-up, name-only resurrected by vultures, no relation in the hardware at all.

- "Era"? nearly ALL manual lathes are oprhans and most are techicnally also antiques.

- Manual mills are not a great deal different.

- should "veteran" super-precision lathes be grouped by function and market segment? Continent or US /Metric heritage?

- should "veteran" CNC be grouped for commonality of their controls? Similar repair parts? Repair organization coverage? How about function or capacity?

Might be "better the chaos we know"?

"Latest posts" find it all, "right now" and a day or so back.

Subscribing to a Forum helps. So, too subscribing to a single thread. Or a hundred and fifty of them. VB can message you that there is new content. Or not.

IOW - the site tools let each of us track what we care about, long-term or just temporarily - within either current traffic, or searches amongst older - all no matter what the site's layout or navigation looks like.

And all carried on the skinny back of MySQL alleged RDBMS?

DB-driven "SHOULD" make content management easier. Change can be a lot of work and require a lot of testing when it isn't the best DB type or product for the nature of the tasking.

2 point 54 CW

 

[gregormarwick]

As to the 'suspicious" if not open to the public behaviour?

I think I was careful enough to state that I think the risks of such happening here are negligible to non-existent, but;

Horse puckey.

Absolutely not. I have witnessed first hand exactly what I described happening on other forums. When people know that the mod team are operating without transparency it's only a matter of time before some malcontent questions their motives or actions. Usually starts when someone gets a suspension or ban.

Most other forums use IRC, or latterly a Discord channel, for mods to discuss mod things, or a "hidden" subforum that is invisible to users without moderator permissions.

I view gregormarwick's experience of widespread distrust of a private moderator forum as symptomatic of some other, deeper issues in a forum's culture or moderation team

For certain, yes, and again I think I was pretty clear that I was posting it as "something to consider" and not a dire warning of the end of the world.


While I admittedly only allotted it a single sentence, my main point was that certain things that Cal laid out would be better served discussed by the community as a whole - site changes, sub forums etc, and technical issues like the photobucket thing have a much better chance of useful resolution when exposed to the userbase as a whole rather than a small group.

 

[thermite]

happening on other forums. When people know that the mod team are operating without transparency it's only a matter of time before some malcontent questions their motives or actions. Usually starts when someone gets a suspension or ban.

Novated and ran one for a time. Active staff and retired, all same company, all special-category "Overseas" mobile. Tough balancing the moderation when current technicians, former technicians and Engineers, former heads of entire global zones, and former Managing Directors, whole damned planet are on the same wire, ages 30-something to past 90, have known each other, worked together 40 odd years, average. More than a few even married to some other member's daughter. Or former wife. Just DEAL with that.

You serve a community of that sort, you don't "manage" it.
For damned-sure it was done in their full view.

PM is not the same creature. At all.

"Member" is but a concept. There is no "affinity group", pre-existing, or as a product of participation. "Member" commonality is largely in their quest for expanded knowledge and the ready exchange of it. Easily as many managers here as worker-bees. Seriously large firms pay attention, regular contributor or no.

Seekers of cult, cabal, clan, or the construction of priesthoods or hierarchy of any kind simply fail here, and will always fail.

Can't "herd cats"? Why try it with the diversity of the entire Animal Kingdom?

"Practical Machinist"? "Machinist" is a handy label for a large component of those who drove the raw roots of an Industrial Revolution. They remain among the heirs to its extended success. But only ONE such label. It's the "Practical" part that spans and endures.

Industry constantly grows new technology, expands in new directions, marginalizes old methods.

Many here are not Machinists, nor ever were or will be. They may cast, injection mold, weld, spin, laminate, laser print, plasma deposit, electroplate - or Manage - any of many other means to - as I put it "mangle matter".

Even so - "not only" matter. Sometimes it's energy. Or distribution. Agriculture. Economics, Mathematics. Chemistry. Many and any.

Others among us boil books, manage, fund, invest in enterprises, work in other "none of the above" fields, Medicine, Software, Law, Accounting, Rigging, repair, and nearly any OTHER trade or occupation with a "harmonized" code. Or no such code.

Commonality?

Not limited to subtractive machining. Simply "an interest in.. <whatever>".
Gather round. Find it here.

No Joy? Go scout. Bring some. We'll taste it, season it, share it back out.

Try to run that lot as a "mobocracy"?

Differences of opinion might easily approach the infinite. Then change in but a few seconds. Then a SECOND guy adds HIS opinions!

By some metrics, PM is a dictatorship.

One with a dictator who seldom chooses to "dictate". He very rarely NEEDS to do, y'see.

Once a "stone soup" project has reached critical mass, there's usually enough to eat for all comers. There is usually a self-regulating effect amongst the contributors and the diners. Let an idea be heard so that yours may also be heard.

Agree, then? Oh f**k no! Can't expect MIRACLES, after all.

It's still an Earth-bound internet with real mortals, not a celestial one with Angels, "virtual" or otherwise.

So far, anyway.

So "bun fights" can still happen.

But per that label? With buns, and virtual ones even so. Not heavy artillery with real steel. No nukes, please!

If it ain't broke.....? Find us a BETTER example to emulate?

Joking, right?

But only about that very last part of the very last line, bolded.

 

[plastikdreams]

The sites I've moderated/admined had a staff area, I'm surprised this one doesn't.

 

[thermite]

The sites I've moderated/admined had a staff area, I'm surprised this one doesn't.

As said, AFAIK, it does have. Moderators are not the only resource set to PM.

Some of what Cal is missing may simply be for lack of a "door key" being included in his amenities kit.



BTW.. note that the overwhelming percentage of forums, by count, not activity.. are moderated by.. well. just go look.

Not sure it is a good idea putting a forum in between that lot of Moderators with the same login name.

 

[GregSY]

I hate to break the news to you, bu there already is a secret forum here. It's for all the cool people, so they cab freely talk shit about everyone else and discuss topics that, well, are secret. So just put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Antarctica]

Thread lock in 3, 2,...

 

[thermite]

.. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Rather suspect you did that part FIRST, or it wouldn't have come into being, yah?

 

[Cole2534]

I thot Faceplant and Bitter and Yew-Toob were invented to cover all that trash so PM didn't HAVE to?

Why compete any further in that space than we do already? How much extra work can Gordon STAND without keeling over?

Mind.. given the choice of being run-off to share space with rooshin troll factory's, orange haired puffballs and lard arse (alternate)reality stars?

Might be a good incentive to clean up our acts and stay to home?

I don't want to talk to those retards. I want to talk with the knowledgeable folks of PM about off-topic shit.

Fr'instance- Can I use argon in a nitrogen filled shock? Off topic, but i wanna ask the question to someone with a real brain, like a PM'er.