OT need a hydraulic cylinder shaft

idacal · Jul 28, 2017

I have a couple of hydraulic shafts on a piece of equipment these are 15' long 3" diameter that the chrome is flaking off you can imagine what that does to the seals I have built cylinders before but I can't do them this long Im trying to get prices on having these built I dont have pictures right now but they are basic cylinder design 2 shoulders and a thread on one end on the other a machined step and a hole through the other end.
Im getting quotes locally at 3 times materials cost is this realistic going rate? only one shop locally an do them, I might have an excuse to by a hollow spindle lathe now

ManualEd · Jul 28, 2017

idacal said:
I have a couple of hydraulic shafts on a piece of equipment these are 15' long 3" diameter that the chrome is flaking off you can imagine what that does to the seals I have built cylinders before but I can't do them this long Im trying to get prices on having these built I dont have pictures right now but they are basic cylinder design 2 shoulders and a thread on one end on the other a machined step and a hole through the other end.
Im getting quotes locally at 3 times materials cost is this realistic going rate? only one shop locally an do them, I might have an excuse to by a hollow spindle lathe now

At that length and size you might try a big hydraulic shop. They may be able to re-chrome and grind it for a decent price.

Limy Sami · Jul 28, 2017

idacal said:
I have a couple of hydraulic shafts on a piece of equipment these are 15' long 3" diameter that the chrome is flaking off you can imagine what that does to the seals I have built cylinders before but I can't do them this long Im trying to get prices on having these built I dont have pictures right now but they are basic cylinder design 2 shoulders and a thread on one end on the other a machined step and a hole through the other end.
Im getting quotes locally at 3 times materials cost is this realistic going rate? only one shop locally an do them, I might have an excuse to by a hollow spindle lathe now

2 1/2 to 3 times material cost is about the normal rule of thumb for onesy twosy work, and as they are big rods, the shops with kit the size to handle them are fewer so can / will charge accordingly.

FWIW - Although that size is outside my range these days, ....I'd be looking at pricing at 3 times material price, .........and for an unknown customer - especially on hydraulics I'd insist on payment up front.

idacal · Jul 28, 2017

limy sami thats the information I was looking for. payment up front no problem at least in escrow if I dont know the shop, the only shop local that can do them is that shop that you only go to when all less fails and you lube your ass before you walk in the door I have never got out of there for less than 10 grand no problem except 5 guys that are sweeping floor are clicking on your jobs time sheet I think I will repack them again and start looking for a hollow spindle that will do the work

Mike C. · Jul 28, 2017

Just find a long bed lathe with a good steady. That's how we always did rods like that at the chrome/hydraulic shop. A 20-24ft bed L&S Model X can make you some serious money, even with a 2 1/2" spindle bore.

Limy Sami · Jul 29, 2017

idacal said:
limy sami thats the information I was looking for. payment up front no problem at least in escrow if I dont know the shop, the only shop local that can do them is that shop that you only go to when all less fails and you lube your ass before you walk in the door I have never got out of there for less than 10 grand no problem except 5 guys that are sweeping floor are clicking on your jobs time sheet I think I will repack them again and start looking for a hollow spindle that will do the work

Thanks for coming back Idacal.

Unfortunately that is the way of the world, ....however, have you thought of putting out an RFQ here http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-resource/

As the saying goes, ;- you never know your luck in a big city, ............like you might find a guy who's willing to do a deal, ....there are several ways of achieving a better price that still satisfies both parties.

FWIW ;- IMHO you need a guy who's used to working on big and therefore expensive material, some of us get rather sweaty and nervous with a lump of material worth more than our truck / bike / boat, house even :eek:

so tend to shall we say ''over compensate for it''

Ray Behner · Jul 29, 2017

If you should get a long bed and do it yourself, you'll still need a steady. That chrome will be turning on the steady fingers. Not good! I make running collars for each size bar. Just a piece of al. or brass round about 2" bigger than the work piece. Make it about a thou. less on the ID. Heat it up and slide her on the bar. When the work is complete and the bar is cool, heat the collar up (quickly) and slide off. I also put aluminum shim on the chuck jaws. You might also want to ask how they do it where you may take it. Aw shit, them jaws ain't gonna hurt the chrome much...maybe?

Hobby Shop · Jul 29, 2017

I use to make/repair 180-220" washer shafts on a 72" lathe. Add a few inches to the shaft length, steady on the end of the bed, tail was held up by the crane and turned them like you would any other job. Raise the hoist until the whip is out and your good to go.

Sometimes you have to move the sling around to find the sweet spot on the tail. We had chain slings that were lined with oil soaked leather. Don't part all the way, only 90% then saw off the chuck extra off.

Limy Sami · Jul 29, 2017

Hobby Shop said:
I use to make/repair 180-220" washer shafts on a 72" lathe. Add a few inches to the shaft length, steady on the end of the bed, tail was held up by the crane and turned them like you would any other job. Raise the hoist until the whip is out and your good to go.

Sometimes you have to move the sling around to find the sweet spot on the tail. We had chain slings that were lined with oil soaked leather. Don't part all the way, only 90% then saw off the chuck extra off.

BTDT several times, only be careful with the speed, sometimes it's granny gear and lump it, .......and when screwcutting leave a bit extra a bit under minor dia on the length so you can slip the nut/ gauge on first

.those sort of jobs take careful planning

Oh yes, and FWIW? 15ft of 3'' steel bar is going to be in excess of 360lbs

HuFlungDung · Jul 29, 2017

One thing that might be considered is using nitrided hydraulic cylinder rod for the new rods. I'm not sure if a size that large can be bought off the shelf of a steel supplier, but it might be worth asking. It won't delaminate the next time.

A hollow bore lathe would be useful for this long work, but still requires a great deal of care in mounting and protecting the surface of the shaft as it is inserted through the front and rear chucks, and you'd still need a floor steady of some sort.

alskdjfhg · Jul 29, 2017

Wish my long bed lathes were powered up (finishing phase converter is taking forever). I can handle 15' with 10' to spare.

Ray Behner · Jul 29, 2017

Limy Sami said:
BTDT several times, only be careful with the speed, sometimes it's granny gear and lump it, .......and when screwcutting leave a bit extra a bit under minor dia on the length so you can slip the nut/ gauge on first .those sort of jobs take careful planning

Oh yes, and FWIW? 15ft of 3'' steel bar is going to be in excess of 360lbs

Here's what I did for an 1 7/16" (I think) bar that was over length by twice the bed length. Sometimes ya gotta improvise.
16 foot bar in 2x8 lathe - YouTube

9100 · Jul 29, 2017

Send them to Vision Tool

http://vishiontool.com/

and get them done right. They grind them a couple of thousandths under size, build up chrome past original diameter and grind them to size. They regularly repair things like the slide bars for rock crushers.

Bill

I just looked at your original post and realize I had overlooked the 15'. They may be able to do them, maybe not.

Wild West · Jul 29, 2017

Hard Chrome Plated Rods - Hydraulic Piston Rod | CRC Distribution, Inc.

idacal · Jul 29, 2017

Hobby shop Thats a good idea on making them on a shorter lathe I going to pull them again And will get some proper mesuremets and have them drawn up to get some quotes I dont trust my vary basic lathing skills on 3000 ech in material stock but for 15 grand tha I was quoted I will tackle them. Can make it 3 times and still be ahead

Mike C. · Jul 30, 2017

$15K???!!! Call Precision Plating in Fultondale, AL. You can have them made, shipped to you and still have enough money left over to hold one hell of a party when they arrive. Even at 15ft, I wouldn't expect those to cost more than couple grand, each.

Ray Behner · Jul 30, 2017

Mike C. said:
$15K???!!! Call Precision Plating in Fultondale, AL. You can have them made, shipped to you and still have enough money left over to hold one hell of a party when they arrive. Even at 15ft, I wouldn't expect those to cost more than couple grand, each.

You're right. I'm small time with purchase power and I just paid 230 bucks for a 55.5" chrome bar. This is thou. chrome 100K. That should equate to less than 1500 bucks for 2 15 footers.

MattiJ · Jul 30, 2017

idacal said:
Hobby shop Thats a good idea on making them on a shorter lathe I going to pull them again And will get some proper mesuremets and have them drawn up to get some quotes I dont trust my vary basic lathing skills on 3000 ech in material stock but for 15 grand tha I was quoted I will tackle them. Can make it 3 times and still be ahead

You have been shafted royally. :eek:

First online reseller around here for Chromax 280X 70mm hard crome plated shaft sells for 580 USD for 6 meter (~20ft) bar. 80mm(3.15") bar would be ~700usd

Those are just online list prices and I would expect to get 20-50% off from those prices if I just ask for an offer from couple of distributors.
Maybbe couple of hundred bucks to get the ends done on top of that if there is nothing fancy.

LKeithR · Jul 30, 2017

9100 said:
...They grind them a couple of thousandths under size, build up chrome past original diameter and grind them to size...

For new rods that's overkill for most applications--different story if you're rebuilding an existing one. A lot of general purpose cylinder rods are made from
1045 CPO (Chrome and polish only). It's available cut to length in stock sizes--no other work required except to machine the ends for a piston and a clevis
or other link. For heavier duty use go to IHCP (Induction hardened and chrome plated) in either 1045 or 4130/4140...

9100 · Jul 30, 2017

Much of the time the grind is determined by wear rather than plating requirements. Usually if a shaft is scuffed up they will have to go that deep or more to get a good surface.

Bill

OT need a hydraulic cylinder shaft

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