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First Lathe Questions

bob11x

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Location
Rochester, NY
So I am over the Rockwell 10.
I put a wanted ad in craigslist per suggestion here. I have 3 lathes offered already.

1 - South bend 9" (sounds like a 9a) with loads of tooling
2 - South Bend (not sure of model - friend of a friend ) with lots of accessories
3 - MW (Logan) looks like a 9" with a stand

What are things to look out for on a South Bend? What are weak areas? What are nice options?

Thanks again for all help!

bob
 
SB 9 is a great starter lathe. Load of tooling is a HUGE plus. Better is a SB10L, with the large bore spindle (heavy 10), this is a FAR more capable lathe than a SB9, will have power cross feed, QC box, etc.. If decently tooled and in good condition, it's all you will need for a while.

Can't complain about a Logan, either. The little 9" was the first American made lathe I got to spend time on, and quickly showed me the weak points of my 9x20 Jet. Go with condition first (as well tooled junker is useless), tooling next in line (nice lathe with very little tooling won't be of any use until you have some), and price after that (you can easily double the cost of your lathe if it has no tooling, and a worn out/beat to death machine is worth nearly nothing... unless you need it for parts).
 
I started with a 9" Logan, ran a SB light 10 for as long as I ever want to. IMHO these are too short on rigidity and make the learning process more difficult. I never could make a cutoff tool work right on my 9" Logan with a lantern toolpost. When I graduated to a real lathe, I found that I could do all the things others could, was just machine limited. There are lathes like Clausings and Sheldons that are far better choices.

Bill
 
I'd jump up to a better class of lathe. While the SB 10 Heavy is a good all-around machine, it's just not that much of a leap forward from the Rockwell in terms of ruggedness and power. Look around for a good used Harrison, Clausing, LeBlond, Monarch (pricey) or similar "commercial" American iron. Something with a geared spindle drive rather than belts. You won't regret it.

I got my dad a 1980's vintage Victor 1640 (Taichung Machine Works, Taiwan) for free + shipping, so I didn't have the opportunity to shop American (nor the money, at the time). If not for the gift, I would've been looking for a 15" Clausing or similar.
 
I'd be looking for a geared head lathe as a second lathe.

The SB10L is a lot more machine than the SB9, light 10, or Logan 9 (have run both the SB9 and the Logan, and the light 10 is a 9 with added swing only). Being able to stall a machine is not always a bad thing, especially on a first lathe. It will stop before it breaks something. That said, you can pull a pretty amazing cut on a SB10L in backgear with a good sharp HSS tool, if you get it set up right.

I also had trouble with cutoff operations on the Logan 9. The compound and cross slide are about half as heavy as a 10L. Spindle nose is twice as large on the 10L, too. Bed is heavier. Carriage is heavier. Again, with proper setup, a SB10L can perform excellent cutoff work... but you have to learn how to get it all set up. You can't force it to power it's way through with a dull tool that is above center, or below center, or out of square. You'll learn good technique that will serve you well on a larger lathe.

As was also posted before, you can carry a SB 10L to the basement if you have to. You'll never carry any Monarch down a set of stairs.

Once you get comfortable with lathe operations, you'll need a real shop. Then you hunt down a 16-18" gear head lathe with a 10ft bed for serious work. You now have a big lathe for big work and a really nice smaller lathe for fine stuff. Nothing nicer than two complimetary sized lathes in the shop... unless it's three or four.
 
Does the logan come with a quick change gear box? or the southbends?

Id seriously lean towards the ones with the gear box (juggling change gears gets old)
 
Looked at the 1st south bend today - kind of a mess. It turns out to be an 11" catalog # 384Y. The serial number I could find was only 4 digits..?
It has a quick change, but it is all apart and looks to have been run hard. Bed is full of smashes - all the screws are dinged from removal (many times by the looks)
Pass on that one.

The Rockwell 10 keeps calling me - I know it needs a lot of work on the apron, but it is such a neat and compact setup....
 
Bob,

It is a neat lathe. I am using mine today... doing some hard turning on some 0.500" Thomson shafts. This job would be MUCH easier with a heavier more powerful machine. The killer on the Rockwell you are looking at is the broken gear teeth in the headstock. The apron repairs are do-able. Even the headstock gears are do-able but not with the equipment you have.

Take a look at:
http://www.plazamachinery.com/files/metal1.pdf
for the parts you need. Add up the the list of parts and subtract it from the total $2000 that the eBay seller is asking. See if he will let it go at that price. The deal he is offering is an "ok" (not "great") price considering the tooling he is offering with it IF it didn't have the headstock and apron problems. You are still missing a steady rest (I use mine a lot) and a follow rest which will be really hard to find. I have yet to use my follow rest but when I do need to use it I will have it.

-DU-
 
I made him an offer. I don't know why I am liking that machine so much. It just seems the right size and shape. I emailed Joe, he has a bull gear and some of the apron parts. The bronze thread dial gear is non existent according to him. Did you make yours? How did you set it up?
Thanks again for the dialogue.
 
bob11x;1275673 The bronze thread dial gear is non existent according to him. Did you make yours? How did you set it up? [/QUOTE said:
I didn't know the thread dial gear was missing. Mine is in fine shape so I haven't bothered to replace it. What was worn on mine (but still working) was the bronze power feed worm gear. The power feed worm gear is pretty essential for using power feed for both longitudinal and cross. You could get by without cross power feed as long as you don't have too many large facing cuts to do. Nice to have for parting off also. For long. feed you could just use the threading halfnuts... but that would be a terrible abuse of the halfnuts and leadscrew.

I made my own power feed worm gear from SAE 660 bearing bronze. I reverse-engineered the original and also got a copy of the original drawings from Rockwell*. It was difficult to do because it was the first gear I ever made. I needed a mill with a dividing head which I had. Fortunately I was successful. My new power feed worm gear has been in operation for 89.1 hours of motor time (I have a digital Hobbes meter on the motor) and is still going strong. I made careful measurements of the gear before installing it, including its mass to within 0.01 grams, so I could determine the amount of wear.

I was also trying to figure out how to make the power feed worm gear with only a lathe but I lost interest in that project once I got mine made. I know that some people have had success making such gears with only a lathe. Best way is to make your own hob. Problem with that is the RW 10" does not have the correct gearing to make the correct pitch hob. I think one would need a lathe that can do diametral pitch threads (or something) in order to make the hob. Not sure about that because it has been a while since I looked into it.

Back to your thread dial gear: Fortunately the thread dial gear would be easy to make a hob for. Simply cut an ACME profile 8 TPI thread on a piece of O1 of adequate diameter. Harden. Grind some longitudinal slots to make the teeth and you have a crude hob. Turn the gear blank from 360 brass. Mount the hob in the spindle. Mount the gear blank on the compound so that it can turn freely on an axle. Feed it in to the hob with the cross feed. Crude, but many people have done it with success. Done carefully you can make as good a gear as the factory ever made.
You also may be able to find a gear off-the-shelf that will work. It doesn't need to be anything fancy because it doesn't drive anything but a dial.

For thread pitches that are multiples of 8 (8, 16, 24, 32, 40,...) you don't even need a dial. Any place the halfnuts will engage will work.

* Rockwell is a bit unusual. Though the company has gone through many changes and has dropped the Rockwell name for Delta... they still carry some parts for machines they no longer make. The only part still available for the lathe is the Reeves drive belts and that because the same size belt is still used in a machine they still make (a bandsaw I think.) However... I called their tech support line: 1 800-223-7278 and asked politely if they could send me copies of the drawings for these part numbers:
Worm Gear 414-02-051-5037
Power Feed Worm 414-02-351-5004
Bracket for Power Feed Worm 414-02-014-5006
Clutch Shaft 414-02-406-5009
on lathe model number 25-700.
They said fine and emailed me PDFs of scans of the original drawings within an hour! Next best thing to getting the actual parts.:D
I know of no other companies that would do that.

-DU-
 
On many levels - WOW!

A - A site like this.
B - People who take the time to help out
C - A company that cares about there reputation, even when their name is gone off the marquee

Haven't heard back yet - I may not, as I offered what I thought it would be worth, and that is a large distance from what he asked. With the work it needs, that is all it is worth. Thanks for the advice early on, and thanks for the continued detailed input.

OT It is amazing what one can find through Google. It must really open up the world to so many. I just did a quick check on diametral thread cutting, and there are a bunch of folks with detailed descriptions of how they did it. Twenty years ago (10 for that matter) one would have to spend days researching, and most likely come up with text describing the event, but now Google + you tube give you total media input. It does get cumbersome watching and skimming, but for people who don't learn by reading, it is a huge boon.

Thanks again!
 
South Bend # 2 was a 13" CL81450. A little large for my basement stairwell....
I posted info on it in the for sale listing for the owner.

Looks like the Rockwell is gone, no calls from the owner.

The Logan is a 04TLC-700. Haven't seen it, not sure I want to.... priced at $650. Non-quick change gears.

Thoughts on the MW/Logan?
 








 
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