OT: PEX , PVC or Copper for water pipes?

Copper is old school , PEX is new trend.

Which one do you all prefer, and why?

Pex= Quick and easy to install. Easy to move if you change your mind. Easy to disassemble to add fittings. No glue, no solder. Comes in size to at least 1 inch.

I think PVC is so far down the pecking order it's not even worth mentioning. Copper is OK, but expensive and more labor intensive.

I never used PEX (Super PEX) before until our main line from the street ruptured a week ago. It installed very easily, just cut and crimp. No problems with something catching fire. You can also use shark bite connectors. You still may need to do some soldering to adapt connectors. In the future I'm going to use PEX, so much faster/easier.

Apart from having to dig a trench I only had two problems.
1. In 3 different hardware chains I got 3 different answers as to what to use. To varying degrees all were all wrong but they spoke with such conviction about what pipe and connectors to use that at one point I though I had bought the wrong pipe. One guy wanted me to but the black pvc pipe with a pressure rating of 80 psi, street pressure here can be up to 150 psi. I guess it might of worked for awhile, at least until I had filled the trench in .
2. Most stores do not stock the Mueller compression fitting with the stainless sleeve so you can connect to the street water shut off.

If you are just doing plumbing after the pressure reducing valve it is pretty straight forward. The saving grace for me was I was able to check things with a buddy who is a plumber.


Dave

I just had my house re-plumbed last week due to a leak in a wall (luckily not the slab, damage was minimal). They used PEX and were able to get the entire thing done in an 8 hr day. They said that they had issues with CPVC failing at the joints and switched to PEX a few years ago. PEX is flexible which really helps minimize joints.

A mix of both copper and pex, depending on the application, location and all that fun stuff, but the majority can be run with pex.

Pex is good but be aware of the way it is sized. Unlike water pipe it is measured by outside diameter. 1/2" pex is about 3/8' water pipe, 3/4" pex is the same as 1/2" water pipe, one inch pex is 3/4" waterpipe.
I much prefer the stainless clamp rings since one tool clamps most sizes you will ever see in a house. And it needs less room to get the tool into place.
Bill D.

Which do you prefer??? As a buyer, installer, PEX is easy and cheap. As the homeowner, High end home, my daughter has just had the third service call in a 4 year old home for leaks in PEX.

One of the downsides of Pex is supposed to be degredation under direct sunlight. What if anything will degrade or cause failure of PVC?

Sometimes mice and rats like to eat PEX when they get hungry

I like pex. Run a manifold in utility closet and no joints in the walls. Red for hot, blue for cold. Besides, copper pipe has become so pricey.

I prefer PEX. One reason that has not been mentioned is that PEX will survive freezing - copper will not.

If the house will ever be vacant, either during construction or if it is a seasonal home, use PEX -- copper is stolen by the druggies whenever and wherever they can find it. PEX doesn't have much of a salvage value....

thermite said:

I've seen figures that 80 years is the average service life across type M & L, so the cost diff between PEX and Type K over perhaps a 100 year service life is barely a rounding-error.

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My parents had a slab leak in their copper pipes in less than 20 years. My house is 25 and just had a leak (actually less because it was leaking at an old repair). My next door neighbor had a slab leak a couple weeks before mine. Neighbor across the street had one 5 years ago. Maybe copper lasts longer when it is suspended in a basement or crawl space. The literature I got on PEX is that it has a 25 year manufacture warranty and data shows that it may last up to 100 years.

This is what I have been doing with PEX. Easy to install, about 1/5 the cost of copper and much more resistant to freeze damage.

This picture shows the rough-in of my master bathroom. The manifold is inside a plywood box that is inside a wall cavity. A instant water heater is installed in the same box just below the manifold and supplies all the hot water for the master bath. Another manifold and heater setup supplies the rest of the house.

Bill D said:

Pex is good but be aware of the way it is sized. Unlike water pipe it is measured by outside diameter. 1/2" pex is about 3/8' water pipe, 3/4" pex is the same as 1/2" water pipe, one inch pex is 3/4" waterpipe..
Bill D.

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Some confusing information you have presented here.
When you say waterpipe, please quantify that.
From the context of your usage, I derive that you mean waterpipe to be galvanized steel threaded pipe.
You say, Unlike water pipe it (PEX) is measured by outside diameter.
Both types are measured by their outside diameters.
(Isn't all pipe measured by OD and hose measured by ID????)
The OD of 1/2" steel pipe is .84".
The OD of 1/2" PEX is .625".
Mind you these are nominal trade sizes calling then 1/2" but both pipes are measured by their OD.
1/2" PEX and 1/2" Polybutylene both have .625" ODs but different IDs.
Hence the different barb type fittings, but they still are called 1/2" trade size.
You would think tubing that interfaces with barbs in the ID would be designated by it's ID size,
but that nomenclature is reserved for hose.

--Doozer

You also need to watch out for the different types of copper pipe. Type L and M are found in all the big box stores and while both "Will Work" Type L is the only one I use, due to it's thicker wall.

"The main difference between type M and L is the wall thickness and pressure rating. The two most common sizes are half-inch and three-quarter-inch.

Type M half-inch pipe has a wall thickness of 0.028 inches while type L is 0.040 inches. Type M three-quarter-inch pipe has a wall thickness of 0.032 inches and type L is 0.045 inches."

Back in the 80's we had a very deep and long freeze, well for Houston at least People were waiting months for repairs and I saw a lot of pipes that had failed. Pex and PVC were not used much. Whether your structure had copper or galvanized pipe all depended on the price of copper when it was built. Copper had lower labor cost but higher materials cost. When the price of copper was high most plumbers switched to galvanized..

Common failures I observed all had to do with the type of pipe.

PVC would be broken all over the structure and require the plumbing system to be totally replaced. The pipe would have a lot of dips between fasteners on horizontal runs and everywhere there was a slight dip the pipe would be just fractured and splintered.

Type L Copper had failures at the fittings.

Type M Copper had splits in the side walls of the pipes and failures at the fittings.

Galvanized had failure at the fittings where the cast fitting would split or the pipe would break because of the threading that reduced the wall thickness. Galvanized also has the problem of pin holes developing and rusting on the inside of pipe. Overall it's just a ticking time bomb waiting to suck your wallet dry.

I like copper because I can do all the repairs myself, it is easy. All the water faucets etc. are designed for copper.

The new plastic water lines are quick, easy, cheap for new construction but a pain in the ASS to repair yourself.

PEX leaks are a royal PITA. Intermittent leaks are really common with the stuff. I would make sure I bought the best quality fittings and tools to install it if I went that route. Never had an issue with quality copper installed properly.

Spud said:

Copper is old school , PEX is new trend.

Which one do you all prefer, and why?

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I like rigid sweat soldered copper. Works fine on city water, will corrode through on well / spring water.

After my parents had died and we were cleaning up the home place in Western PA, I pulled a washer out from the wall not noticing a ground wire that was attached to the cold water copper pipe. It snapped off the pipe as though it were made of glass.

The wall of the pipe was paper thin, and we found pin holes in pipe all over the house. The plumbing was about 40 years old. We had a spring that filled a cistern and a shallow well pump. The water would also eat through a water heater in about 5 years.

I have talked to others who had wells who had the same problem.

Paul

Pex must be crimped correctly. That is the only reason it will leak at the fitting. The tools must be checked everyso often.

If you have 1/2" copper you should use 3/4 pex to get the approx flow. Pex fittings have a small ID per size.