OT: standby generator

rainman · Sep 21, 2017

Hello all,
Have been without power for 10 days after Irma hit us; just got it back on last night. Have a portable generator, which is OK for a couple of days but not a very good way to live indefinitely, especially since I can only run a few things on it. So, I'm looking into the possibility of a whole-house generator. We have no gas utilities here, so I guess they'd have to bury a propane tank in my yard. My questions here are, is there something to definitely look for, and as well, things I should avoid? One brand better or better value than others? Thanks in advance.

ifixcnc · Sep 21, 2017

Generac Power Systems | The best backup generator for your home, business | Generac Power Systems

Top of the line, pricey but worth it.

Monarchist · Sep 21, 2017

rainman said:
Hello all,
Have been without power for 10 days after Irma hit us; just got it back on last night. Have a portable generator, which is OK for a couple of days but not a very good way to live indefinitely, especially since I can only run a few things on it. So, I'm looking into the possibility of a whole-house generator. We have no gas utilities here, so I guess they'd have to bury a propane tank in my yard. My questions here are, is there something to definitely look for, and as well, things I should avoid? One brand better or better value than others? Thanks in advance.

"Tactical Quiet" MIL Surplus MEP-803A here. Nominal 10 KW continuous @ 8000 feet above sea-level, actual 12 KW, can run a loooong time under 15 KW draw, not just peak.

Ignorant #2 Diesel, multiple SMALL tanks, plus good jerrycans rather than the hassle of a large tank and its regulations.

And, yes, I had to collect the goods to build a "polishing" or preening system and treat the stored fuel a couple of times a year. Part of the reason for multiple, smaller tanks, BTW.

Otherwise, just transfer switches and wire. It even has a built-in solar charger to keep its 2 X 12V batteries from going flat.

2CW .. or around $4,000 to $6,000 all-up, recycled Cummins-Onan 3-Phase Automatic transfer switch included.

In between natural disasters, I can run shop critters off "native" 208-Wye 3-Phase at the flick of a few switches.

BTW... I'd recommend "enough" of a battery bank to run FOOD STORAGE off those from an inverter, solar augmentation optional, 100-percent-plus easily do-able.

The a / any - gen set then need not be run 24 hours a day - most especially if nights are cooler, AC not required, or if a woodstove covers heating, Northern winters etc.

fish123 · Sep 21, 2017

Many years ago we bought a 21kw Perkins Diesel genset from these guys.
As all the family vehicles are Diesel, we use the fuel up every year, whether the generator is run or not.
After the recent hurricane, we were on the generator for a couple of days.
It powers the entire house, found a used Square D manual transfer switch, (eBay) to make the connection, great.

https://www.centralmainediesel.com/

Monarchist · Sep 21, 2017

fish123 said:
Many years ago we bought a 21kw Perkins Diesel genset from these guys.
As all the family vehicles are Diesel, we use the fuel up every year, whether the generator is run or not.
After the recent hurricane, we were on the generator for a couple of days.
It powers the entire house, found a used Square D manual transfer switch, (eBay) to make the connection, great.

https://www.centralmainediesel.com/

Central usually offer a one-lung, "medium speed" (1800 RPM) Kohler or such that wudda been MORE than enough in Virginia's formerly temperate climate, given how well insulated our home is and how well it thermally "flywheels".

With changes in climate already showing, plus advancing age of the family, I elected to be able to pull either of wintertime all-electric heat OR full-gallop Air Conditioning.

And even supply my two adjacent neighbors with enough power - one 20A each - to at least keep their fridge-freezers and a fan or space heater operational.

Reduces risk of complaints about noise & such, that can do. The MEP-803A met CARB for its date of manufacture, is clean-running save at initial fire-up, and actually IS "quiet". Relatively.

steve-l · Sep 21, 2017

Consider Monarchist's recommendation, he's spot on. I have purchased a 10' ex army container and converted it into a sound box for a 25kva 3 phase 400V 50Hz Diesel unit to do the same thing. I have oil heating with 6000 Liters of fuel storage. I use the heating fuel for the generator. I did not wish to use auto starting and transfer, so I installed a manual change over switch. This unit will power my whole house and my shop. I got a good deal on the gen set ($3500). The container cost me $450 and a couple of months part time work to modify and paint. The change over wiring and transfer switch set me back $800. The container plan allows sound proofing, weather protection and service space for the gen set.

My logic was that the cost was cheap disaster insurance and if I no longer need it, I can sell the container and generator as a working, portable complete unit for at least the money I paid for it, including labor. I know natural gas is common in the US for generators, but you are not self sustaining, if you are depending on an external source of fuel. Please also consider alternator speed. Most of the small units use 2 pole alternators that must run at 3600 RPM........very noisy and not rated for a continuous duty application. Where as a 4 pole alternator and an industrial diesel will have a continuous rating and be much quieter as it will run at 1800 RPM.

DDoug · Sep 21, 2017

fish123 said:
Many years ago we bought a 21kw Perkins Diesel genset from these guys.
As all the family vehicles are Diesel, we use the fuel up every year, whether the generator is run or not.
After the recent hurricane, we were on the generator for a couple of days.
It powers the entire house, found a used Square D manual transfer switch, (eBay) to make the connection, great.

https://www.centralmainediesel.com/

While this is a good way to keep fresh diesel fuel around, your running the genset on fuel
with road tax payed on it, around here, that add's about $1.00 to each and every gallon.

Maybe you have some red dyed fuel for some tractors at your place ?

Or maybe your road taxation is not out of control ?

Scottl · Sep 21, 2017

ifixcnc said:
Generac Power Systems | The best backup generator for your home, business | Generac Power Systems

Top of the line, pricey but worth it.

That's what our local fire department has at fire stations. They are outside on elevated pads for protection against flooding. The Generac name is clearly visible.

Danny VanVoorn · Sep 21, 2017

I was out of power at the house several days some years back in the middle of winter. It grew old real fast so I decided to get a generator to run lights, NG furnace and refrigerator. After looking at all the small portable generators at the big box store the decision was made to get one big enough to run the house or my work shop if need be, wound up getting a 15KW Generac semi portable unit that runs on gasoline.
As for the wiring I cheaped out and ran a 50 amp cord into the basement, branched out from a gang box with separate cords to the furnace blower and controls and another for the refrigerator and one for some lights. No transfer switch or anything permanent, all wiring rerouted after power came back up. The generator is in long term storage now with the oil changed, cylinders fogged and gasoline drained after using it.
There's been a few times that I thought about getting rid of it but a few years ago I needed to do some welding away from a big enough power source. Generator and welder in the pickup bed, a can of fresh fuel, installed the battery and I was welding like there wasn't ever an issue.
I don't know if the sitting between uses is going to cause problems but for now it's a nice thought that it's there if I need it.
Dan

jmanatee · Sep 21, 2017

fish123 said:
Many years ago we bought a 21kw Perkins Diesel genset from these guys.
As all the family vehicles are Diesel, we use the fuel up every year, whether the generator is run or not.
After the recent hurricane, we were on the generator for a couple of days.
It powers the entire house, found a used Square D manual transfer switch, (eBay) to make the connection, great.

https://www.centralmainediesel.com/

At my previous two location I had Generac Automatic propane standby generators, I had a 12kw in Florida and a 15kw in Connecticut. I will never do propane again. First they are Air cooled 3600 RPM engines, they are loud but more of a problem is they eat propane like no tomorrow. At 50% load the 12kw was 1.53 GPH the 15kw was 1.6 GPH at 100% load it was 2.08 and 2.40 gph. But worse, in FL we lost power because of a hurricane and had trouble getting propane deliveries. We rented the tank so I had to get fuel from Suburban. I forget what there excuse was. In CT I figured I would fix the rental problem so I bought my own tank (325 gal) we lost power from ice storm had trouble getting companies to fill, the company that installed it said peoples heat comes first, I tried other companies they had to schedule an inspection before they would fill.

In New Hampshire I bought a 10kw Perkins Diesel from www.centralmainediesel.com too. It is water cooled 1800 rpm At 50% load It burns about 0.4 gph.

I built a shed for it and keep a 55 gal drum in the shed with it. I am a diesel guy so I always have diesel on had usually 300+ gallons but I can use my transport tank and get more and I can drive a long way to get diesel if there is a problem here. But I have found that during the hurricane or ice storm that gas ran out with all the people with gas gens and cars but diesel was still available..

rainman · Sep 21, 2017

Thanks for all the responses. So, if I did diesel, and I filled a 55 gal. drum, I'm reading that it may last me maybe 4-5 days. Still means during a 10 day outage like we had, I'd still have to go back for fuel at least once. Better than fill 3 5 gal cans of gas every day, which is what I had to do. Not as good as continuous, but as I said we don't have natural gas service. What would or could I do with any extra I'd have? I have no diesel equipment; surely it goes bad like gas, right?

Monarchist · Sep 21, 2017

digger doug said:
While this is a good way to keep fresh diesel fuel around, your running the genset on fuel
with road tax payed on it, around here, that add's about $1.00 to each and every gallon.

Maybe you have some red dyed fuel for some tractors at your place ?

Or maybe your road taxation is not out of control ?

I don't know that it is a "tax" issue around here as much as nuisance + opportunism.

But.. I can buy over-the-road at almost the identical per-gallon price as off-road.

Heating oil, I could get at a savings, but it isn't quite the same quality, I don't use enough nor want to store enough to be bothered with the minimum order delivery.

For my modest annual needs, "transfer" is but 4 each 5 gal jerricans, two right decent 20 gal aluminium tanks with proper fittings, gages, and the whole works (Northern Tool critters, IIRC).

Even so, I try to keep one if not both empty and dry purged, save for times of impending high-risk.

My idea of "survivalism" is just long enough to get through short emergencies - else close up house and simply get TF out of Dodge for a nicer place.

"Cheyenne Mountain bunker mentality" and a coupla NORAD MOS no longer fit my lifestyle.

Mud · Sep 21, 2017

rainman said:
What would or could I do with any extra I'd have? I have no diesel equipment; surely it goes bad like gas, right?

I have a 300 gal. above ground diesel tank like you see on farms. There have been times when it went for a couple years without being emptied and refilled, and I've never had a problem. I put BG diesel fuel conditioner in each new fill, hoping that it will help keep it in good condition, I'm not an expert on that, just stating what I've been doing for many years. The BG helped with some injector problems in a Detroit long ago and I just stayed with it.

I understand the biggest fear with diesel storage is the growth of fungus and etc. in the tank, once that starts you have a serious problem.

DDoug · Sep 21, 2017

Monarchist said:
I don't know that it is a "tax" issue around here as much as nuisance + opportunism.

But.. I can buy over-the-road at almost the identical per-gallon price as off-road.

Heating oil, I could get at a savings, but it isn't quite the same quality, I don't use enough nor want to store enough to be bothered with the minimum order delivery.

For my modest annual needs, "transfer" is but 4 each 5 gal jerricans, two right decent 20 gal aluminium tanks with proper fittings, gages, and the whole works (Northern Tool critters, IIRC).

Even so, I try to keep one if not both empty and dry purged, save for times of impending high-risk.

My idea of "survivalism" is just long enough to get through short emergencies - else close up house and simply get TF out of Dodge for a nicer place.

"Cheyenne Mountain bunker mentality" and a coupla NORAD MOS no longer fit my lifestyle.

Off road "dyed fuel" is IIRC $2.10 presently
On road is (I saw one station at $3.08) and up on the superslab (I-90) It was $3.40

Heating oil comes from the same exact tank as off road, you just have to pay the 6% sales tax.

Monarchist · Sep 21, 2017

rainman said:
Thanks for all the responses. So, if I did diesel, and I filled a 55 gal. drum, I'm reading that it may last me maybe 4-5 days. Still means during a 10 day outage like we had, I'd still have to go back for fuel at least once. Better than fill 3 5 gal cans of gas every day, which is what I had to do. Not as good as continuous, but as I said we don't have natural gas service. What would or could I do with any extra I'd have? I have no diesel equipment; surely it goes bad like gas, right?

Diesel actually has long-term storage about as good as it gets, PROVIDED.. one can keep it "dry", eg keep WATER out of it. Most critters that want to infest it need "some" water as well as raw Diesel.

And then, there are two major families (chemically) of storage-life extenders.

I alternate the two. BG and DeeZol.

Storing only about a week's worth at 20-30% duty use and running fuel through a pair of "polishing" filters in a round-robin transfer of active-duty tankage once, if not twice, each year takes care of the rest.

I stash enough Kerosene and 2-stroke oil to do my own "winter start" cutback brew, 9 gal set-tank for first long-idle cold start only.

And if it LEAKS? You can see that - Mark One Eyeball. Not always so easy with LPG/NG.

BTW: Don't go TOO "oversized". These critter should be run once a quarter, if not once a MONTH, and can "wet stack" if not given a decent load for that periodic exercising.

2CW

DDoug · Sep 21, 2017

Monarchist said:
And if it LEAKS? You can see that - Mark One Eyeball. Not always so easy with LPG/NG.

Yabutt ! You can't run a BBQ grill or turkey deep fryer on diesel.....

Monarchist · Sep 21, 2017

digger doug said:
Yabutt ! You can't run a BBQ grill or turkey deep fryer on diesel.....

The f**k you cannot!

WTH d'you think an Army in the field cooks and washes dishes, clothes, and sweaty balls and buttlocks with?

DDoug · Sep 21, 2017

Monarchist said:
The f**k you cannot!

WTH d'you think an Army in the field cooks and washes dishes, clothes, and sweaty balls and buttlocks with?

Gonna make the food taste funny Bill...gonna taste funny...

steve-l · Sep 21, 2017

Heating oil is essentially the same as #2 diesel. The only possible issue other than water, is cold weather waxing.so when I order the heating oil, I always add anti-waxing additive. This is supplied by the same folks I buy the heating oil from and mixed at the time of delivery. I run the same fuel in my fork lift. It will store for many years without any issues. There is no risk in having too much, just too little. I also use a motorcycle battery tender always plugged in to the starting battery for both the Gen set and the fork lift. It is necessary to run the Gen set once a quarter against a load for an hour or so.

TDegenhart · Sep 21, 2017

digger doug said:
Gonna make the food taste funny Bill...gonna taste funny...

You have one option...take it or leave it.

Tom

OT: standby generator

Cast Iron

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Aluminum

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Similar threads