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OT teach me about automotive paint

Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I am going to do some body work to my old Chevy Dualy. I plan on repairing a few rust holes, I'll make the patch panels out of stainless so I don't have to do it all over in a few years. Don't waste your time telling me to just buy a new one. Hell will freeze over before I spend the 65,000 it will cost for an equivalent replacement. I am 62 years old now so I should be able too make this thing last for as long as I need a truck. So back to the subject, what is the easiest to use most durable paint? My old spray gun is a siphon type, do I need to get a HVLP gun? If it makes any difference it is black.
 
Auto paint is multi layer. Primer protects the metal and the topcoat protects the primer. On modern vehicles the topcoat is usually also two layers, basecoat plus clearcoat. This not only gives more protection but makes the paint look "deeper".

Generally the more pigment in a paint the more vulnerable it is to weathering but the binder is also important.

If you want to do a single layer topcoat in black I would advise using a catalyzed polyurethane such as Imron, Glassurit, or similar. I had a Mustang painted in black Glassurit years ago and it was very durable but there is a safety hazard from the fumes (iso-cyanates) so you must have very good respiratory protection (supplied air is best).
 
How much are you paintings? Whole truck or just the repaired areas?

You don't need a HVLP gun but it does have less overspray.

I would either go to the local paint supply store and have a conversation with them or look at the Summit Racing paints. They are quite affordable and people seem to like them.

You want a good epoxy primer. Done correctly you start with the epoxy primer, filler primer that you block and sand, sealer (sometimes just the epoxy primer and sometimes a special sealer) then paint.

I personally would not use SS. The key is to protect the underside - drill holes if necessary to protect the backside. And butt weld - do not overlap the welds as that is an area that will corrode. Use a good respirator and follow all safety and product instructions.
 
Be prepared for new cancer as soon as you fix the old. Your just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

I had one of the siphon spray guns that I gave to a body shop. They told me those are illegal to use because of the emissions.

Be prepared to spend hundreds of bucks for the paint. My local body shop told me that they pay about $800 for a gallon because of the pigments.

Tom
 
I am going to do some body work to my old Chevy Dualy. I plan on repairing a few rust holes, I'll make the patch panels out of stainless so I don't have to do it all over in a few years. Don't waste your time telling me to just buy a new one. Hell will freeze over before I spend the 65,000 it will cost for an equivalent replacement. I am 62 years old now so I should be able too make this thing last for as long as I need a truck. So back to the subject, what is the easiest to use most durable paint? My old spray gun is a siphon type, do I need to get a HVLP gun? If it makes any difference it is black.

What Tom said, cubed:
Be prepared for new cancer as soon as you fix the old. Your just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Makes more economic sense - given it is a TRUCK, separate body & frame - to just buy a strategic few entire new panels in ignorant steel. Taiwan firms buy-up the old stamping dies and make these by the ton for inch-hoorance collision repair use. They fit near-as-dammit perfectly on (at least) GMC & MOPAR trucks, too. BTDTGTTS. Fords? Born ugly, so how would one even be able tell as to fit?

:)

For the most part, they will be factory-fastener bolt-on or Lord special glass-bead epoxy plus rivet-on, perhaps a benefit from the odd strategic TiG touch.

The cheap ones expect a craftsman to salvage the inner panels. Do NOT Go there!

Buy the better ones that already have the inners welded-in. They ship with lower rosk of in-transit damage and fit better, too. Ask me HIKT? A loyal 1991 GMC Sonoma pranged in a collision as well as nibbled-on by rust.

First off, even though only plain steel, the parts are NEW, so even in primed-only, have a fresh start at the salt-belt corrosion life-cycle.

Secondly, you have the opportunity of improving corrosion-resistance as you go, because you can get AT all the innards, seams, laps joints, and welds as well as the outers.

Thirdly, you can do this whilst on sawhorses. Each panel can be laid to the best of SEVERAL angles for coating(s) to flow and get at and into critical corners and moisture traps.

Fourth - the truck is still "roadable as-is" whilst you prep all this.

Each section can then go into place when it is ready, primed-plus-plus, and a coat or two of your finish colour already on it. Get it "right" final-final spray is mostly clearcoat work.

Fifth - WHILE you have each quarter or side pulled to make the swap, you have easy access to treat the innards, the frame, supports, any other parts NOT being replaced.

Far better job at the end, and very much worth it at the price of new trucks, engine & running gear swaps as much easier as they can be.

3CW, but the damned "puters and wiring can be far the costlier show-stoppers than body rust.

I have had to resist the tempation to fit Stromberg carbs, hand choke, Scintilla Vertex magneto - and shed the entire lot of that half-vast electrical-wizardry s**t. I HAVE goen so far as DIY downdraft throttle-body Corvette FI and custom PROM onto a Vortex V6, and gotten BETTER emisisons figures than factory. Once. It wasn't a casual effort. Among other chalenges was bribing a GM staffer to get sight of the drawings for both. (GMC 90-degree V6 into '84 Jeep Wagoneer and the second owner is still enjoying running it, present-day).

But then... that was to 1984 Jeep // 1991 GMC engine specs, and tailpipe-tested, predating full-house onboard diagnostics tattle-tales.

Nowadays, you can't pass emissions for road use on the mere "principle" of it all, and I no longer need a "farm use only" pickup!

:)

PS: Factory code primer, topcoat, and clearcoat paint and family, please. And/or the repair industry standbys.

Only. ELSE you are just creating a problem they solved arredy a very long time ago.

It ain't no $800 a gallon, either. Just look harder.

Even the 2005 Jaguar XJ8-L "mica slate metallic" for use on challenging (thermal movement..) aluminium body is only about $80/gallon concocted by the usual dominant supplier to the trade.
 
I'm headed down a similar path, and looking at panel adhesive instead of welding. Aside from being easier (for me) and not burning your truck to the ground, the main benefit is thorough rust prevention within the lap joint. I plan on keeping my '03 Suburban 2500 Quadrasteer because you can't get them any more, and I've barely got 100k on it. Ain't dead yet.
 
not only is the stainless overkill but it will be hard to work with. weld in normal patch panels, go behind with something like:
Amazon.com: Transtar 4423 Amber Rustproofing - 17 oz.: Automotive
after the patches are welded in, old paint feathered and panel clean and sanded use an epoxy primer first, plastic filler second then high build 2k primer
it don't matter what gun you use as long as the tip size is correct and the gun functions correctly (although no one in the business has used those types for many years)
i assume you know how to block sand
if using base coat be sure to get the product sheet for whatever brand "black" you use because the mixing ratios are typically unique to black. i found out the hard way years back
 
Any thoughts on ford truck bodies made of Aluminum? I know jaguar had lots of corrosion problems until they figured how to electrically separate the Al body parts from the steel frame. I believe Audi glues them together and the glue is an insulator.
Why no one impresses voltage on a car to stop corrosion I do not know. I think it has to do with not wet enough to complete the circuits.
Bil lD.
 
what's the question. no experience on ford but lots of experience on a gm aluminum/smc body motorhome. no corrosion to speak of except some years where there was a ss base for body side molding. however that took many years to present itself
 
What Tom said, cubed:


Makes more economic sense - given it is a TRUCK, separate body & frame - to just buy a strategic few entire new panels in ignorant steel. Taiwan firms buy-up the old stamping dies and make these by the ton for inch-hoorance collision repair use. They fit near-as-dammit perfectly on (at least) GMC & MOPAR trucks, too. BTDTGTTS. Fords? Born ugly, so how would one even be able tell as to fit?

:)

For the most part, they will be factory-fastener bolt-on or Lord special glass-bead epoxy plus rivet-on, perhaps a benefit from the odd strategic TiG touch.

The cheap ones expect a craftsman to salvage the inner panels. Do NOT Go there!

Buy the better ones that already have the inners welded-in. They ship with lower rosk of in-transit damage and fit better, too. Ask me HIKT? A loyal 1991 GMC Sonoma pranged in a collision as well as nibbled-on by rust.

First off, even though only plain steel, the parts are NEW, so even in primed-only, have a fresh start at the salt-belt corrosion life-cycle.

Secondly, you have the opportunity of improving corrosion-resistance as you go, because you can get AT all the innards, seams, laps joints, and welds as well as the outers.

Thirdly, you can do this whilst on sawhorses. Each panel can be laid to the best of SEVERAL angles for coating(s) to flow and get at and into critical corners and moisture traps.

Fourth - the truck is still "roadable as-is" whilst you prep all this.

Each section can then go into place when it is ready, primed-plus-plus, and a coat or two of your finish colour already on it. Get it "right" final-final spray is mostly clearcoat work.

Fifth - WHILE you have each quarter or side pulled to make the swap, you have easy access to treat the innards, the frame, supports, any other parts NOT being replaced.

Far better job at the end, and very much worth it at the price of new trucks, engine & running gear swaps as much easier as they can be.

3CW, but the damned "puters and wiring can be far the costlier show-stoppers than body rust.

I have had to resist the tempation to fit Stromberg carbs, hand choke, Scintilla Vertex magneto - and shed the entire lot of that half-vast electrical-wizardry s**t. I HAVE goen so far as DIY downdraft throttle-body Corvette FI and custom PROM onto a Vortex V6, and gotten BETTER emisisons figures than factory. Once. It wasn't a casual effort. Among other chalenges was bribing a GM staffer to get sight of the drawings for both. (GMC 90-degree V6 into '84 Jeep Wagoneer and the second owner is still enjoying running it, present-day).

But then... that was to 1984 Jeep // 1991 GMC engine specs, and tailpipe-tested, predating full-house onboard diagnostics tattle-tales.

Nowadays, you can't pass emissions for road use on the mere "principle" of it all, and I no longer need a "farm use only" pickup!

:)

PS: Factory code primer, topcoat, and clearcoat paint and family, please. And/or the repair industry standbys.

Only. ELSE you are just creating a problem they solved arredy a very long time ago.

It ain't no $800 a gallon, either. Just look harder.

Even the 2005 Jaguar XJ8-L "mica slate metallic" for use on challenging (thermal movement..) aluminium body is only about $80/gallon concocted by the usual dominant supplier to the trade.

Fenders are at Rock Auto for 50.00 each, no brainer. But are they made from tin foil? Maybe with some effort I can find some originals in Arizona or Texas. Cab corners and rocker panels I'll do in stainless. I have a shear, brake, strippit punch, Erco shrinker / stretcher, power hammer and access to an english wheel and whats more I know what I am doing with them. SS it is. What I really want to know about is the new paints, Imron with Colar primer was my go to in the 80s, isocyanates and all. there must be something better around now days.
 
What I really want to know about is the new paints, Imron with Colar primer was my go to in the 80s, isocyanates and all. there must be something better around now days.

depends on what you want to shoot. probably 80% basecoat/clear these days. imron is still used some places. last time i had to color match with imron the material was ridiculously expensive.
 
btw, all the aftermarket fenders, quarters, rockers, etc i used on all my mid 60 trucks was 19ga tin foil - just like the factory panels
 
Fenders are at Rock Auto for 50.00 each, no brainer. But are they made from tin foil? Maybe with some effort I can find some originals in Arizona or Texas. Cab corners and rocker panels I'll do in stainless. I have a shear, brake, strippit punch, Erco shrinker / stretcher, power hammer and access to an english wheel and whats more I know what I am doing with them. SS it is. What I really want to know about is the new paints, Imron with Colar primer was my go to in the 80s, isocyanates and all. there must be something better around now days.

The ones I bought(from Rockauto and one other source) were same-same GMC NEW ones I took off. No detectable diff but years of wear, tear, corrosion.. and of course - the fact that I had PRANGED the originals.

Mind - I DID buy the "better" ones with innards attached. There's an inch-hoorance industry classification of some sort.

Stainless up against ordinary steel is not as good an idea as first appears. Nought to do with how well you can WORK it. You'll have different metals, electrochemically, what with the Nickel & Chromium. A "low grade" battery, but a battery, nonetheless. Edison's ones used Nickel & Iron, work a treat despite those two elements being fairly close in the electromotive force series. Yah gots to keep in mind "whatever" reaction(s) slow as it/they might be, is at work 24 X 7 X 365 'til corrosion do it part. No vacations. No off-shift breaks.

I'd use ordinary sheet steel, not even galvanized. Phosphatize it, Zinc-rich primer it at the welds, reg'lar primer and standard paints atop.

Going in NEW, and probably in a heavier gage that the forming dies LEFT the originals with after stretching, it will have a "many-year" fresh-start advantage over the old metal being attached to, after all.

WTF is the point of the patches outlasting the REST of the panels by 20 years if the original carcass rots faster at the joinings just to make that possible? Oh.. and keeping paint even adhered well to stainless is another thing. Rocks and gravel still exists up your way? How's Imron for touch -up friendliness?

:(

The whole project smacks of the Pennsylvania road-paving philosophy: Stitch-in in few trailerloads of potholes brand-new from the factory between the OLD potholes, and the road goes to s**t faster than if it were oiled DIRT! As was wanted. "Job Security" thingie.

You REALLY want to solve this problem? Don't waste yer time bending metal.

Relocate your retirement plan and attached ass TF out of the GD salt-belt!

Dasn't have to be a western desert state.

Compared to my native Pittsburgh or family West Virginia, Atlantic Coastal Plain Northern VA is good enough.

We do salt our roads here, but far, far fewer times a year and for much shorter duration such that getting to a carwash with underbody up-spray right after any such week is good enough to keep the average vehicle sweet for 20 years longer than salt-belt PA, Ohio, Great Lakes areas, points North, et al.
 
Fenders are at Rock Auto for 50.00 each, no brainer. But are they made from tin foil? Maybe with some effort I can find some originals in Arizona or Texas. Cab corners and rocker panels I'll do in stainless. I have a shear, brake, strippit punch, Erco shrinker / stretcher, power hammer and access to an english wheel and whats more I know what I am doing with them. SS it is. What I really want to know about is the new paints, Imron with Colar primer was my go to in the 80s, isocyanates and all. there must be something better around now days.

The formulas appear to change every year. When I buy a quart of paint today I probably will not be able to get the same thing a couple of years from now.

Have been using Imron Industrial Coatings for years. It does not flow as well as the more expensive auto panel grades. But I use the industrial grade for machine painting. The pigment is $20-$30 per quart. The hardener is what costs, I think it is over $200 per quart.
I have heard good things about PPG but I never used it.

I hate my siphon gun but keep it around anyway. A gravity gun is easier to use and clean.

Recommendations:
I have a GTI, but this is supposed to be better.
PLUS(R) Gravity Feed Spray Gun

Smaller, but I still like my SRI.
SRiPro™ Spot Repair Paint Gun

If those are not good enough I can tell you more about Sata and Sagola.

46 Xtreme - Spray guns - Program 1 - BodyShop

The fan control on Sata guns is what I like the best.
SATAminijet(R) 44 B RP / SATA.COM
 
I painted my airplane with Imron about 30 years ago. That stuff lasts and lasts, but you MUST wear a respirator. You really must wear a respirator with ANY of the current paints. Painting your truck with Imron will double it's value--it's that expensive. It's tough enough you could probably paint a workbench top with it, but I wouldn't use it on an old truck.

I recently replaced the hoods on my Tahoe and Suburban due to hail damage. I just used whatever paint my local auto paint store recommended, don't remember the name. I ended up buying a 3M HVLP paint gun that I'm quite pleased with. Like a lot of 3M products, very expensive but very good quality. This setup has throwaway cup liners, etc. so there is almost nothing to clean up. A couple of years ago, I tried painting a bumper cover with my old high pressure gun and it worked, but it used about twice as much paint and it went on dry. I wouldn't recommend it.

The hoods I bought were purchased on Ebay and were made in Taiwan. Quality was good, but I had shipping damage on each one I bought. Seller filed a claim with the shipping company and replaced them.
 
perhaps the op is looking for specific brand recommendations??

i've used ppg for a very long time. in the early days i used dupont and all my painters got crocodile tears so i switched to ppg. shopline due to the cost. i use rubberseal primers and clears because they are equally as good and less expensive. however most of the competitor brands are also good. dupont is harder to use - or rather to "redo". you have to have a chemistry degree to repair a mistake.

the paint stores say you have to use 1 brand from start to finish but that's bs. that's a way to sell product or get out of a warranty issue which i've never seen them pay anyway
 
Imron is good stuff, but it will kill you

really

Acrylic urethane[most modern catalyzed paint] has much less toxic isocyanates in it.

Base Clear will stay shiny longer.

You can use your old gun, but it may be cheaper to buy a new gun seeing as paint is so expensive.

PRep prep prep

Everything apart

Blast it sand it clean it acid etch primer it, as fast as is practical. Don't blast it then let it sit around for a week. Once it is in the green etch primer you can take your time and do the body work

I had single stage [Concept] done years ago, it gets a little dull and porous in time

with base clear it is the clear that does the work, don't buy the cheap stuff or it will start peeling in 5-8 years

I paid ~700 bucks for 4 liters of Spies Hecker clear a few years ago
 
The easiest to use and most durable paint would be enamel. A dummy can spray it and it will look great. One notch up is Acrylic Lacquer. A little more effort to get a good spray pattern but if you get it right it will look like a million. Both will hold up just fine. Stay away from Imron, only a prick would recommend it, not worth two shits for automotive and a major pain to use, and it can be a killer. It would be illegal if it wasn't used on airplanes. Get the surface the way you like it, use some PrepSol to remove the oils from the surface. Keep it simple and you will love it. I paint my truck with a brush and Rustoleum. No one pulls out in front of me, I get plenty of room on the road, and no one parks near it at Walmart.
 








 
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