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05-30-2008, 12:56 AM #1
OT: Where to get '98 S-10 2.2L short block?
Here's the story, a friend of mine let his brain dead girlfriend drive his truck. Idiot uncle overtightened oil drain plug and stripped it after an oil change to the point where it leaked out in a couple hundred miles, somehow this went unnoticed. Motor now has mild rod knock with only 75k on the truck . The truck is in reasonable body condition, nice interior, and a perfect candidate for being an electruck. The problem is it's probably more practical to put the truck back on the road with the 4 banger 5 speed even with the high gas prices. The truck has been offered to me for CHEAP, and I'm SERIOUSLY considering stuffing a short block in it because I don't think the head suffered any real damage. Jasper wants $2200 for a long block, which is insane. I could possibly rebuild the bottom end, but it's usually not worth it when you can get a short block with a warranty for just a little more. I've replaced a cylinder head and clutch on a 94 S-10 2.2L/5sp, so I know what's involved there. Anybody know where to get GOOD short blocks at REASONABLE prices???
05-30-2008, 01:03 AM #2
With only 75k you can probably just put a fresh crank, bearings, and 1 rod in it. cyls. and pistons are probably still ok. Probably do it for a few hundred.
05-30-2008, 01:04 AM #3
I realize you didn't specifically ask about this but what about a "used" motor...that is, one that came out of a truck that has already been used some and has probably been severely damaged in the back end, etc?
Part of the cost issue is how quickly you need to get it back on the road...
05-30-2008, 01:31 AM #4
The junkyards around here will SCREW you.
They look for top dollar on motors and transmissions, and if it's cheap, there's a GOOD REASON! They've screwed so many people around here they literally have a nasty rep. This is NOT the SCRAP yard, which are good people. I might give the SCRAP yard a call, but the junkard in this town looks for any way they can to scam people. Their famous one is selling transmissions that are just GARBAGE, then refusing to give a replacement. Their best one is you didn't open it up and replace the all the seals, therefore it's not their fault. Or you put a used torque converter on it (which is the one that came with the supposedly working trans) , or used a radiator with a trans cooler that had bad trans fluid in it. I know all these CAN cause a working trans to fail, but it's usually not why the trans is bad. Their warranty on engines and transmissions is non existant. I've LITERALLY seen them deny somebody that did satisfy EVERY ONE of their ridiculous conditions, new trans cooler, ALL new seals, new torque converter, and they told them to take them to court. He did, and won, but it wasn't worth it.
I personally knew somebody that got 3 bad 302 fords in a row, and this was a FRIEND of theirs (otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the first replacement motor). One had a rod knock, another had no compresion, and the last one ran OK, but had a blown head gasket that leaked when it got hot. Unless they had a motor that I could HEAR run, check the compression, start cold (so I can see if it has any lifter ticks or things that show up before it gets warmed up), and was DIRT CHEAP, I wouldn't do business with them. Even then they'd still have a way to screw me, they're straight up crooks! The only time it's even worth it to go there is if you can confirm what you're getting is what you want BEFORE you put it in the car.
05-30-2008, 01:52 AM #5
If it were me, I would rebuild myself. At least that way, you know exactly what you have. You may end up replacing some head parts as well. Valves or guides. Who knows.
05-30-2008, 02:57 AM #6
Electric conversion will end up costing you around $10k in the end. If you don't wann pay $2200 for a jasper, take the motor to a CSK/Shucks/Kragen's and trade with them.
05-30-2008, 03:20 AM #7
Check your local NAPA store. We had to replace an engine in our band van (97 GMC 5.7L) first of this year. Shop quoted $5K. I hit the local NAPA and he got us a HESCO. Got a fresh reman for $1600... LONG BLOCK! The short block was only $600 cheaper and only had a 1yr warranty. Long block had three years. We have flat run the pee-pee out of this one and it's fantastic.
As Bruce says, no telling what else got hosed, or what got full of metal when it ate itself. I'd long block it and let it ride. By the time you take that one out and have the machine work done, you'll probably come out cheaper and a whole lot faster with a long block.
05-30-2008, 03:32 AM #8
check your local chevy dealer
we find out here that we can get a new longblock for about 200 bucks more than a rebuilt
from aftermarket folks,, and new has a very good warranty.
2200 is very steep in my opinion
i know i can get a new chevy 5.7 for around 1400 bucks
so i can't imagine a 2.2 going for much over a grand, for a new long block
you might pull the old engine and look to see if the rod has spun, if not just drop a crank
and new brgs in it and call it a day.
i have done it on several engines, last one being a 2.5 in an astro van. it has run approx another 50k so far with no further issues.
or you can get all finicky and replace the rod as well, not that big a deal
with 75k miles on it, i would go the crank and maybe the rod route myself
probably could do it for less than 500 bucks in parts.
05-30-2008, 03:50 AM #9
GM performance parts sells a $900 350!
You can order a brand new GM performance parts 250hp crate 350 for $900, they're DIRT CHEAP! 350s (5.7L) are RIDICULOUSLY CHEAP, because they're so freakin common, and the parts interchange from so many years readily. I thought I should be able to pick up a short block for under $1000, and if I have to, have our local machine shop redo the head for a reasonable price. Never had a problem with that guy's work, in fact, that's where I'll take the crank to get reground. Get some new oversize bearings, new oil pan, and see what happens if I can't find a cheap short block. I might give nappa a try, murray's quoted around $2k too for a long block. Short blocks aren't available there. Now that the motor has oil in it, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the head. You never know what happened to an oil starved engine, it COULD be completely FUBAR where the cam wore so it won't rotate the lifters any more, or if it's a roller cam (I dunno, never seen inside a 2.2) the rollers might have seized on the lifters, and you won't know until there's metal shavings in the oil. There's also a possibility of valvetrain components being worn out, but I know where there's a cracked 2.2L cylinder head I can scavenge pieces from. The oil pump might also be hosed, but a dead bearing can cause the oil pressure to drop. I dunno, from the sounds of this engine though, it wasn't allowed to run long enough to do anything except kill a rod bearing. HOPEFULLY, I'll either find a cheap short block, good used engine, or get lucky with slapping a crank and bearings in (knocking on wood).
05-30-2008, 09:46 AM #10
is this going to be your daily driver, or just a once in a while thing to keep around for the occasional light haul parts chaser kind of thing? I'm assuming you've heard the rod knock in person? If it is truly a 'light' rod knock, you're getting it dirt cheap, and IF you're not going to count on it as a daily driver, buy it and run it till it quits. even if you ARE going to use it for a daily driver, and are willing to baby it along, the same applies....I'm not much up on which Chev is which (other than of course knowing the basics of V8's) as I'm a Blue-Oval guy, but I've personally run F-150s (both 5.0 and straight6-300s) with rod knocks and one notable 300 had better than 250k on it when I junked it.
You're already planning some kind of engine job, and obviously don't want to throw extra $$ at it it you don't have to, run the thing as-is, and keep an eye on craigslist etc until you happen across a wreck (or whatever) that fits your needs. My personal observation in situations like these (and it applies to both buying and selling) is that the guy in a hurry pays more (or sells for less), while the guy with time saves more (or sells for more)
05-30-2008, 10:00 AM #11
Driven to the decision of minimum cost, I'd simply carefully teardown the engine.
In general terms, the top-end (pushrod valvetrain) stuff is reliable without a lot of oil, much more so than the bottom end. I think if you had a bad lifter you'd know that pretty quick because it wouldn't pump back up to zero lash.
So...look over the crankshaft and see what happened. The exterior metals on a shell bearing are soft, of course the backer is steel. Look at the journal on the crank and check for heat discoloration and any "wiping" of metal, check to see if the bearing "spun" by distorting the little keeper "ears". I'd be very tempted to use something like a 900 or 1200 grit diemaker's stone on the journal depending how bad things look, as always, clean off the high spots and deburr the edges of the low spots, put in a new bearing shell (can you buy just one?) and run it.
That costs 1 die maker's stone and 1 bearing shell (probably 4 in reality) and 1 oil-pan gasket (probably need a new oil pan anyway if the thread is shot) and a lot of time. But, if it works...
05-30-2008, 10:37 AM #12
Good condition vehicles with blown motors are the way to go for economy motoring, for the guy who knows one end of a wrench from the other fa a hammer.
I'd go for the DIY rebuild, hey you're a machinist / mechanical guy, yes? that way at least you know what you're getting for however much money you spend.
Along with the regrind I'd go for rings, a bit of a bore hone, DEFINITELY a new oil pump, oh and don't forget the core plugs, heads as needed.
I've seen some of the prices for engine kits on various websites in your country, and believe me, they're cheap.
I know you'll do it right John, but I'll add what one of my old mentors told me, '''Clean it, clean it again, then when you think it's f'n clean, do it again.''
05-30-2008, 10:59 AM #13
05-30-2008, 11:18 PM #14
I'm with Matt on this one, go for potential cheap route. You may have an engine good for another 100K with a bad rod bearing. A little pre teardown diagnostics in order. Slide some straightened paper clips between the spark plug boots and wire jacket until you feel it hit the metal clip (engine off unless you're feeling pretty macho) Fire it up and listen as you ground each cylinder, the one with the loose rod will be audible. My guess would be the cylinder farthest from the oil pump. at least then you'll know where to start. Crankshafts can survive a lot of abuse, if you take the rod cap off and find a little aluminum smeared on the journal you can likely stone it off gently, a light polish with some 400 or 600 grit paper to suit your taste then mike the crankpin every 60 degrees around and each end. If you're not more than .001 or .002 undersize or out of round or no more than .001 taper from end to end it will very likely go the life of the rest of the engine with a new bearing. Of course if you're going to the trouble to take the pan off, you may as well change all the rod and main bearings giving you a chance to look at the rest of the journals. I wouldn't waste money on a new oil pump you can take the cover off in a few seconds and look at it, if the gear ends are not badly scored screw the base back on it and use it, gear pumps can take serious abuse. I seen rotor styles as in mopar and transmission pumps get a bit grooved on the outer rotor, I don't think they can purge grit as well as gear style pumps.