Thread: Pallet straddling engine hoist?

Originally Posted by sa100

Pallet jacks are a cure for world hunger. For fifty bucks you can easily and safely move two and a half tons. Everybody should have at least one!

Steve

How about a 6500 lb machine? I have a "new to me" Kearney & Trecker plain horizontal 2K sitting on a heavy duty, custom made pallet. After I bought the mill, I realized that most pallet jacks will not lift it. So now, I'm looking at investing in a 6600# pallet jack from Global.

Do you think it's worth $300 to make that purchase?

Thanks,

gkbikers

Yes! Buy it...use it...sell it. It will cost you less (maybe half) than $300.

Ken

what you really need is a gantry. you could even bolt together a decent one. or look around for a stradle lift, these can be gotten cheap at auctions, can be electric or manual. tend to be 1500 lb capacity, but some are higher. I had one that was probably rated at 1500 but used it several times to pick up machines that weighed 2500 lbs where I could not get a fork lift in. for instance the second floor of a building with a small elevator.
These go cheap, because people truely hate them.

Use to fight with lifts and gantries and finally got smart and bought a decent fork lift. Now I can move skids as well as unload whatever is on them. Life is too short, work smart.

if you would look at american engine hoist on facebook , it might help, has built in leveling system , counter balanced, legs are not under load, can lift 1 ton from the end of the boom or hydrolics on the mast

I had the same trouble loading heavy shaft on lathe.
Take lift system off base turn 180 degrees remount and counterweight on former front legs.
Now you have free aria under load and can position up to lathe , mill , or pallet.

Originally Posted by gkbikers

How about a 6500 lb machine? I have a "new to me" Kearney & Trecker plain horizontal 2K sitting on a heavy duty, custom made pallet. After I bought the mill, I realized that most pallet jacks will not lift it. So now, I'm looking at investing in a 6600# pallet jack from Global.

Multiton makes a 10,000 lb manual pallet jack... I have two of them. Trouble is, after about 6,000 lbs you can't actually get the thing rolling unless your floor is perfect. Also, after about 6K they are a bitch to lower smoothy. Better is my Clark 6,500 lb electric pallet jack, which will actually lift about 7,200 lbs and rolls easily under power. Also, even maxed out, it lowers smoothly with the press of a button. The electric ones in that capacity are just made way heavier duty all over as well....you can lift things with one leg without the jack tilting or bending. Place to buy them is at live auctions...paid $30 each for mine (yes, $30..with usable batteries too ! )...I have three !

But sounds like the OP wants to get a machine off a pallet...in which case a pallet jack is useless. And a Johnson bar is useless as well once you get over about 1,000 lbs and if the pallet is projecting out further than the machine base. So he either needs to straddle the pallet or use a forklift to lift with straps from above...or if really desperate, use electric saw to cut the pallet out around the base and use toe jack(s) and blocks to lift it above pallet and slide pallet out...then lower on 4 x 4's. From there you can easily get machine to floor, but that's another story.

I just recently went thru a similar thing when I bought a new lathe and mill. I made a lift out of 3" squ. hollow section. Just looks like an upside down "U" . the top beam sits on the legs so the load is compressive. I put removable feet/supports on the bottom. Used a chain lift to raise the machines, pulled out the pallets, lowered onto a pallet trolley and moved them to where I wanted, lifted them off with the chain lift and lowered them. Simple as that.
You say you are not a good welder, as long as the load is compressive and not in shear you don't have to be coded. if you can get someone who is competent to weld it. As far as splaying under load goes you can rig up a chain between the legs to prevent that. I am going to turn my lift into a dual purpose lift/ press on my next project. When not in use the feet come off and it stores flat against the wall

Hi Clive - sounds interesting. Do you have a picture by any chance?

Originally Posted by metalmagpie

Not much to look at!

Attachment 49945

I see you have a gantry in the back there...that would come in handy for getting a pallet out from under a machine.

Originally Posted by surplusjohn

what you really need is a gantry.

I agree, it is one of the few safe ways to do that.. Me and a friend constructed our own gantry for a 2000 lb. machine, to lift out of a pickup, then drove the pickup out from under it and lowered it to the ground. This might be doable for a 6500 lb. machine, but I'm not sure I would trust that much weight on wood, better to have metal, and especially a specific gantry designed for that much weight.

The safest solution is to use a forklift with straps from above, or a crane. If you have the space a gantry might be the cheapest solution if you need to purchase something. You'll also need a chainfall for that as well...custom pallet could be your cheapest option, but ONLY if the machine will fit between the legs to be able to lower it to the ground. 6500 lbs. is heavy, if you tip it over, something will break and you won't be happy and someone could easily get hurt, so think it through before you make a final decision.

Milacron makes a good point, a pallet jack will do you no good whatsoever to get the pallet out from underneath, nor will a johnson bar. So unless you can get the machine to your shop from trailer on skates or pipes, a johnson bar will be useless, IMO. 8000 lb. forklift would be my choice with slings from above. The straps I use to lift logs will handle a load like that 6000 single point or 12000 lbs. as a basket sling, but they cost about $50/pair for 20' slings. You don't have a lot of options, think it out thouroughly before doing something stupid...my $0.02...because even if you could modify a engine hoist to allow the machine to fit between the legs, few will lift 6500 lbs.

I found a pic of using a basket sling, it requires both ends be secure from above.

It all really comes down to; do you want to be in the rigging business or not. A forklift is just about the best bang for your buck (if you buy it right). I bought a 5000 lb Yale 10 years ago and use it at least once a week. It is just too easy to use. My shop is overloaded with Stuff so I move Stuff regularly when a different space requirement comes along.

3¢

cegreen, no I don't but I will take a couple of shots tomorrow morning and post them - or try to post them, I haven't posted photos for a while.
Clive

cegreen, I tried to upload the pictures but it crapped out. I think it would be quicker if I paddled a canoe to the US from Aus and hand delivered them. If you send me an email I can attach them to that.
Clive

Clive was nice enough to take the time to shoot some pix of his lifting frame and make a sketch. Since he had trouble uploading them, I'm doing it. -Chris






The legs bolted on. All bolts are 12mm – you’ll have to use the nearest imperial equivalent, in this case 1/2 inch.
When assembling I just put in the central bolt on each side, lift and put in the brace bolts, it’s really easy. Once you get the first brace in it all is self supporting so you can get them all in and tightened – leave them loose till you get them in.




This shot shows the slot in the bottom so the hook can go up inside – this gives a bit of extra lift and I can bolt on a jack for a press without any lugs getting in the way.





I have dimensioned in metric as I always use it for fabrication, it’s much easier.

Note with the slot in the top – the pin hole is off centre so that the hook clears the top. I used a 16mm (5/8 inch) bit of black mild rod and drilled 16mm dia for it. As the dia on black mild is slightly under it is a good fit with a few thou’ clearance.

The 12mm bolts were given normal clearance for 1/2 inch. either 14mm or 9/16

65mm x 65mm x 3mm tubing approximates 2.5”x 2.5” x 1/8”
40mm x 40mm x 6mm tubing is 1.5” x 1.5” x ¼”
40mm x 6mm flat is 1.5” x ¼”

You’ll see that the support leg clears the ground when the bottom foot/leg is bolted on. this is to allow the whole foot to be in contact with the ground.

I have only lifted 595 kilos with it. As reassurance, assume that the pin is in double shear and (.3125 x .3125 x 3.142 x 26 tons per squ.inch) x 2 for double shear= 15.95 tons. So it’s plenty strong enough.

Same with the welds: 1/4 leg = .25 x .707(tan 45o) x length weld (10 inch all round per leg) x 70,000lbs tensile / 2240lbs gives a figure of 55 tons. Admittedly this is cross shear but it’s still plenty strong enough for general purpose lifts. Which explains why even a crappy weld can give so much grief when you try to break it.

-Clive

Thanks Chris.
Clive

I think that hoist needs some anti-racking supports at the top.

Commenting on the Blue gantry,
By milling out the middle of the cross beam (tubing) you took away lots of strength, like half.
The bottom of the tubing will be loaded in tension, and you cut 50% out of the main tension member.
Not good.

-Doozer

I only made it to lift my lathe which is 595 kilos, no problem at all.
Clive

You did some math on the weld strength,
but if all the force is straight down, welds
will not even see any stress.
(actually a good scenario in this case).

You did some math on the load pin
in double shear, but it is not in tight
double shear, it is in shear over the
width of the tubing, so maybe a
bending moment calculation would
be more appropriate.

You ignore the big cut out which
I mentioned, and say it only has
to lift so much weight.

Typically it is best to identify the
weakest point and run a calculation
on it. The stronger stuff is less of
a concern.

Just trying to keep it safe.

--Doozer

Doozer, I calculated the welds as a reference, I realized it is in compression, there is/was a chance that it could splay and that's why I wanted to know the strength. As it happened there was no splay, even so I had wrapped a chain round it.
I knew the pin would support the load as I have used a similar thing in the past. And the same goes for the cutout. I agree with your comments about making it safe.
Clive