Part quality of new machinist projects

BSCustoms · Dec 21, 2017

I am part of an organization that runs an apprenticeship as well as a helper trainee "intro to machining" program. A dilemma has come up again and I thought I might seek the opinions of the world that these people may become employed in.

We all know what a great looking part looks like. But to a new machinist that may have zero mechanical background, any part he/she makes will be a work of art.

How do you impress a higher quality of work for parts that are "in tolerance"? I am not talking about over processing and polishing fixture studs. But taking the time to put a little craftsmanship in your work. I don't think the word is pride because they are quite proud of evening making a part, as they should be.

We have plenty of old boys opinions "IT looks like shit, make it nicer". We are not trying to baby the snowflakes, but we don't want them to melt in their first few weeks where they are more focused on going home with the appendages they arrived with.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Steven-Canada · Dec 21, 2017

If you have a formal program.

Make an example piece, make a rubric a formal checklist of things that they should look for and do on theirs.

SeaMoss · Dec 21, 2017

BSCustoms said:
We are not trying to baby the snowflakes, but we don't want them to melt in their first few weeks where they are more focused on going home with the appendages they arrived with.

Teach them to break all edges and chamfer any holes, that will improve the appearance a lot without much effort on the snowflakes' part

And it's a good habit to develop early.

Booze Daily · Dec 21, 2017

When I was pretty proud of a part I made I'd ask myself:
"If I went to the store to buy one of these would I pay $XX for it?"

If not, it wasn't good enough.

In the real world someone is buying these machined parts. Do they look like they are worth the price?

MrStretch · Dec 21, 2017

What about going back to basics and start by teaching basic hand skills like sawing and filing? I believe that learning good hands skills can lead to a better feeling for aesthetics(sp?) was well as learning how to use your hand, eyes and brain together.
In the clock program at West Dean College the 1st year students start out by making a test piece that introduces the students to many of the techniques and machines used in clockmaking. One is required to finish the piece before getting your first antique clock to work on. It's absolute torture because it takes 4 - 6 weeks to complete and all you want to do is get on with so you're super motivated.

DDoug · Dec 21, 2017

"Do you want to go thru life making the minimum required of you ?

Well, you'll stay at Minimum wage too."

Tyrone Shoelaces · Dec 21, 2017

I used to get a component one of the kids had made, say one of the pair of jaws of a decent sized toolmakers clamp for example.

It'd be OK, made to the drawing etc nicely polished but the edges would be sharp. Holes would just be drilled.

I'd quite quickly and lightly chamfer the edges with a smooth flat file, deburr the holes with a countersink.

Then I'd put the one I'd finished off with the other jaw the kid had done and I'd just say - " Which one looks best to you son ? ".

A bit different to the instructor I had as a kid.
When I took a component to him that I was supposed to have de-burred but was still sharp he said " Is that finished Tyrone ? " I said " Yes ".
With that he grabbed my hand and ran the edge of the component down the back of my thumb !

Obviously it cut the back of my thumb slightly.

He just said " Bring it back when I can't cut your hand with it ".

Another life times lesson learned the hard way. I can can still see the little scar.

Regards Tyrone.

Billtodd · Dec 21, 2017

When I took a component to him that I was supposed to have de-burred but was still sharp he said " Is that finished Tyrone ? " I said " Yes ".
With that he grabbed my hand and ran the edge of the component down the back of my thumb !

"But Sir....

I was making a knife!"

michiganbuck · Dec 21, 2017

A good trick to make steel parts pretty is to gun blue/black the item then skim grind the final or working area..

Bobw · Dec 21, 2017

Probably wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to make 4 or 5 different parts..
In different families, different materials, maybe a fancy washer, a pin, a simple
plate with holes and maybe something fancy and aluminum..

Now make 4 or 5 of each. Make one with all dull tools, no edge breaks and sharp edges
everywhere.. The next one, hack at it with a file and a belt sander, then do one that is
just "OK", and then do one that is just f'n gorgeous.

At least then they will be able to see and feel what "quality" looks like.
I believe a lot of it is how it "feels".. A nicely deburred part FEELS good in your hand..

On the flip side, I believe you should also stress that not every part is a Rembrandt or a Picasso.
Sometimes there just needs to be a hole there, and you are only getting 3 cents to do it..
Sometimes hacking at the part with a belt sander is all that is required, and its how the part was
quoted, and its what the customer expects.

michiganbuck · Dec 21, 2017

For the more serious and a longer class time a steam engine is a good project. I thought that a 4" or so pipe with end caps might become a boiler. Perhaps a length of iron pipe might even become a cylinder. A reamer might do the cylinder bore (s).

Plans for Everything, Mostly Free

Yes there is a lot to know just running a manual drill press. I guess that would be the first machine I would teach..Drill a hole in a piece of bar stock with one hand safe in your pocket.

Qt:Tyrone [decent sized toolmakers clamp for example.] that is a fine first project.
I made a 1" micrometer in high school Smith Hughes program..Even making the 1/8 40 tap out of drill rod.. dumb kid was I because when I got it done I realized that I had not stamped the numbers and then it was too late. turned the sleeve and frame in one part with the saw cut then milled frame off set in a 4 jaw, and the out end on a dead center on a Sheldon 14 for turn then open for drill and tap.. Thread may have been 9/64 or 5/32-40..not sure now..

DanielG · Dec 21, 2017

Bobw said:
Probably wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to make 4 or 5 different parts..
In different families, different materials, maybe a fancy washer, a pin, a simple
plate with holes and maybe something fancy and aluminum..

Now make 4 or 5 of each. Make one with all dull tools, no edge breaks and sharp edges
everywhere.. The next one, hack at it with a file and a belt sander, then do one that is
just "OK", and then do one that is just f'n gorgeous.

I like this idea, when I was learning to machine I would have surface finish troubles. The part would be in tolerance, but it wouldn't look very good. Having some known-bad parts along with a good part would be handy if I knew how the known-bad parts ended up that way.

We had something similar when I learned to weld. Lincoln Electric puts out a poster with pictures of tons of bad welds, along with what parameter was off to make it go bad. I could take a weld that I knew was crap and compare it to the poster. Know I knew what I was doing wrong, not just that I was doing something wrong.

gustafson · Dec 21, 2017

Your job as a mentor, when presented with a part that you consider not up to snuff is to ask 'why?'

Is it because it is not burred?

OR because they do not know how to use a file properly, or select a file properly?

Or are they rushing the job at too high a feed?

Or there setup is improper meaning the part is moving vibrating flexing?

It does not take 20 years of experience to select a sharp mill 2nd cut file, gently but decisively run it perpendicular to the teeth across an edge, but it does have to be taught.

Many if not most will assume there stuff looks like crap because that is what their skill level is. if you can show them that there stuff can look good then you might make them interested and gain confidence.

It is a careful balance to make them focus on the second part of the 'Your part looks crappy and here is how to fix it' sentence

D Dubeau · Dec 21, 2017

You can't make a brain that thinks in fractions, think in thousandths. I came to this revelation trying to teach some recent new hires. Some people are just able to focus better on the little details like deburring, making things look nice, organization, cleanliness etc, and some people no matter how hard you try will always do the absolute minimum required even if it takes longer...

Some people are simply not cut out for the detail work. On the flip side some people are just not cut out for the other work that doesn't require such detail. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. Don't get frustrated if some kids just don't click with it.

One thing you can ask of them to drive the point home is "can you lick it?" Guy I used to work with (ex patternmaker so everything had rads....) used to say that. It should be clean and smooth enough that you should be able to lick all the edges and not cut your tongue. Unless you're making knives or cutting tools. Then don't do that. Or do, and use that as a way to sort them out....

michiganbuck · Dec 21, 2017

Qt;D Dubeau [You can't make a brain that thinks in fractions, think in thousandths.}

I wholly agree with that.. the only thing good/Ok about fractions in the machine shop is having standard sizes for tools and stock to start from...from there out think in thousandths..

DanielG · Dec 21, 2017

D Dubeau said:
One thing you can ask of them to drive the point home is "can you lick it?" Guy I used to work with (ex patternmaker so everything had rads....) used to say that. It should be clean and smooth enough that you should be able to lick all the edges and not cut your tongue. Unless you're making knives or cutting tools. Then don't do that. Or do, and use that as a way to sort them out....

Also important not to use this test when training electrical techs.

D Dubeau · Dec 21, 2017

DanielG said:
Also important not to use this test when training electrical techs.

You never stuck your tongue to a 9v battery? lol (that's why i'm not a sparkie)

B-Mathews · Dec 21, 2017

BSCustoms said:
I am part of an organization that runs an apprenticeship as well as a helper trainee "intro to machining" program. A dilemma has come up again and I thought I might seek the opinions of the world that these people may become employed in.

We all know what a great looking part looks like. But to a new machinist that may have zero mechanical background, any part he/she makes will be a work of art.

How do you impress a higher quality of work for parts that are "in tolerance"? I am not talking about over processing and polishing fixture studs. But taking the time to put a little craftsmanship in your work. I don't think the word is pride because they are quite proud of evening making a part, as they should be.

We have plenty of old boys opinions "IT looks like shit, make it nicer". We are not trying to baby the snowflakes, but we don't want them to melt in their first few weeks where they are more focused on going home with the appendages they arrived with.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Well in the real world that the apprenticships will be going into will have everything they need on there blue prints or drawings. Either they spec out or they dont. In my opinion it goes both ways in a job shop you only want to spend the time it takes to make the part to the tolerences provided. Not higher not lower. Anything else and your loseing money and time.

split tenth · Dec 21, 2017

Tell that new person to put that tool or part in their tool box and take a look at it a few decades from now to see if they have improved.A good learning lessonfor all of us.

rogertoolmaker · Dec 21, 2017

What is Quality

B-Mathews said:
Well in the real world that the apprenticships will be going into will have everything they need on there blue prints or drawings. Either they spec out or they dont. In my opinion it goes both ways in a job shop you only want to spend the time it takes to make the part to the tolerences provided. Not higher not lower. Anything else and your loseing money and time.

The quality should be just good enough to satisfy the end use. Otherwise no one obtains any utilitarian value from adding the additional effort and costs. Quality is developed with knowledge, proper direction to the apprentice over time as there skills improve. This is a big part of an apprenticeship. And it is not the easiest thing to learn. I work at it and work at it and I will never get it. However over time the light starts to shine in. "If the student hasn't learned the teacher hasn't taught". Quality is the message instructors need to instill in the men in there charge over time. Students need to receive a weekly written grade card to develop an under-standing how they are progressing. Have apprentice training both in the classroom and shop to provide them with fastest path to becoming a journeyman craftsmen.

All the Best.
Roger

Part quality of new machinist projects

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