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Planning small shop out of a 100 Amp panel

Makin' N Bakin'

Plastic
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
Slightly electically challenged and Planning to use a residential 100 amp garage panel to run, small VMC, small collet lathe, drill press, and various smaller shop power tools. Aside from limitation of the total load used, which is the best for powering the large items. (VMC or Lathe) Assuming I will need to go from a 3 phase piece of equipment to the residential 100 amp single phase, which is best----- Rotary Phase converters or transfomers? I do plan to hire a professional electrician, just would like a 2nd opinion.
 
Transformers vary voltage, and cannot make single phase into 3 phase to my knowledge.
So you are looking at a rotary or a variable frequency drive. I'd stay away from static converters.
There is some loss of floor space and increase in noise level with a rotary. Personally I have my two 3 phase machines on VFD's - a vertical and a horizontal mill, I like the added ability to control RPM by varying frequency, and I don't have much free floor space. I doubt your VMC would appreciate frequency variations.
Some VFD's generate a square wave pattern, which can be fixed somewhat by capacitors. It might not like the waveform either.
 
Slightly electically challenged and Planning to use a residential 100 amp garage panel to run, small VMC, small collet lathe, drill press, and various smaller shop power tools. Aside from limitation of the total load used, which is the best for powering the large items. (VMC or Lathe) Assuming I will need to go from a 3 phase piece of equipment to the residential 100 amp single phase, which is best----- Rotary Phase converters or transfomers? I do plan to hire a professional electrician, just would like a 2nd opinion.

You will be very limited, but it really depends on how you have your house wired. A VMC can chew up a lot of power, many need 60-70 amps. If you have something like that running you will not have very much electricity for your home while it's running. Same thing with an RPC, you'll need quite a bit for an RPC that will start a VMC, probably a 15HP or 20HP RPC at minimum. Again, depends on the spec for your VMC. How many amps does your VMC require ?

Would *probably* be best to have another power line run, or rent a building close to you and use it for your shop. Maybe someone has a miracle solution for you, if so I'm all eyes...
 
Being in a residential area, there are restrictions on industrial activities. You may have a problem convincing the local fathers that a VMC is just for hobby use. Bringing in an additional service to the garage may raise flags to the city that something is going on beyond the normal use of a residential garage. It happened to a friend that built an add on to the existing garage where he had a nice machining business. When the city found out that he was installing an additional 200 amp service, they came asking and shut him down.

Tom
 
You can get a lot of work out of 100A box. I've run my shop since 1980
with 100A on a separate meter. I run a 3hp 30A rotary phase converter
with zero electrical issues. My biggest draw is starting a 1946 Monarch
10EE, probably exceeds the 30A momentarily. I also have a Haas TL1 and it
is wired 50A single phase. 1-1/2Hp Bridgeport, 2Hp Hendey Lathe, B&S
2A Light Horizontal, Ribbon Rur ID OD Grinder, Boyar Surface Grinder,
Hardinge DV59, Hardinge TL plus a host of other single phase stuff and
lighting. Of course they all are not running at once. The only thing
I cannot do is start the EE when the BP or the Ribbon is running. I can
start and stop them once the EE motor/gen is up to speed without any
overload. Welders can be a big draw and so are single phase motors over
1Hp. Electric heaters will require more Amps.
spaeth
 
100 amps at 240 is pretty limiting. You can run a 10hp Phase Perfect on 60-70amps to give you 30 amps 3 phase 240 with decent overload capability at machine startup.

Don't forget heat, lights, compressor, etc..
 
FWIW, I run my shop on a 50A panel out of necessity. You can do just fine if you plan your equipment AND if you will be the only one working in the shop. My 50A panel runs mill, lathe, bandsaw, belt sander, grinder, and more with two workers just fine, never had a problem.

Just to confirm: Definitely hire a professional, licensed electrician, and check his/her references. If needed, get a permit, and get inspected by your city. This makes everything legal and contributes to your home's value when you sell.

LM
 
I have to disagree, based on experience. Remember he said a "garage" shop as in home shop. If only one person is using the machines, then normally only one machine will be on at a time. A compressor will be intermittent. And most home shops do NOT have 10 HP machines, mine certainly does not.

My house has two central AC units, clothes dryer, two cook tops and an oven for the heavy loads. When I retired and started to move my shop into the garage I found that the biggest restriction was the number of available breaker locations in the house's original panel. It had only about three or four empties and even with double circuit breakers, that just would not do. I wanted to add two 230V and about eight 115V circuits for it. There was only a single duplex outlet existing in the garage and none in the adjacent storage room where I planned to put my compressor. One more thing is I have been changing the lighting in the house to CF and later to LED so that saves some power. BTW, there is an additional benefit in any power savings in more efficient lighting in the summer as the AC units do not have to work as hard to remove the heat generated by the inefficient bulbs. Here in south Texas, with a large house like mine, that can be significant. I have also replaced 1 1/2 of the AC units with modern, more efficient units.

I did bring in a professional electrician and had him change out the breaker box for a larger one. This is OK by the code if there is a reasonable expectation that you will not exceed the Amperage of the main breaker, which in my case is 125A. If you want more at that point, then you need to replace all the wiring from the pole to the breaker box with heavier gauge.

Anyway, he replaced the breaker box in one morning and I had all the circuits I needed. I had him bring them out to boxes adjacent to that new breaker panel and I have run the circuits from there to save $$$. I have 230V for the AC unit in the window (with heat) and for the mill, 20 Amps each. I ran four 115V, 20 Amp. circuits around all three walls and alternated circuits in each outlet location. That way I have all four of these utility circuits available on each of those walls. Three more 115V circuits were run across the ceiling for the benches and equipment in the middle of the room: the lathe and the big drill press each have their own, private circuit. Finally one circuit was run to the compressor in the storage room where the breaker panel was. I also added a couple of outlets in there on the above circuits so I can eventually locate my bench grinders in there. I still have one or two breaker slots available.

In several years of use I have not had a single power problem either in the house or in the shop. I was a bit worried about running things in the shop while the clothes dryer or the oven was in use, but that has not materialized.

I mentioned that my main breaker is 125 Amps. If you total up all the breakers in my new box it will probably be three times that much. But, as I said above, this is OK with the code if it is based on a reasonable pattern of expected usage.

As for the three phase equipment, a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) is the way to go. It allows good speed control and it is probably the most efficient way to do the conversion. So, it will use the available electricity in the most efficient manner: in other words, it will run your three phase machines with less electricity. It is probably a good idea to have dedicated breakers and circuits for each VFD, even if you will probably only use one at a time. With limited power available I would pay close attention to sizing the VFD and to the other specifications.



100 amps at 240 is pretty limiting. You can run a 10hp Phase Perfect on 60-70amps to give you 30 amps 3 phase 240 with decent overload capability at machine startup.

Don't forget heat, lights, compressor, etc..
 
FWIW, I run my shop on a 50A panel out of necessity. You can do just fine if you plan your equipment AND if you will be the only one working in the shop. My 50A panel runs mill, lathe, bandsaw, belt sander, grinder, and more with two workers just fine, never had a problem.

Just to confirm: Definitely hire a professional, licensed electrician, and check his/her references. If needed, get a permit, and get inspected by your city. This makes everything legal and contributes to your home's value when you sell.

LM


Same - my shop runs off a 60A branch circuit off my 100A main. From that, a 40A circuit runs my 10 HP phase converter which in turn runs a VMC, CNC lathe, manual mill, manual lathe, and miscellaneous other crap. I had to slow down the spindle accelerations on the CNC machines and I need to watch my DOC and feedrate on the CNC lathe, but it runs them all.

Obviously more power would be better (and it's in the plans) but my shop is proof it's at least possible to run equipment on a very small amount of power.
 
I'm currently running a Haas Minimill2 (wired single phase) and a 25HP rotary phase converter that runs my 7.5hp VMC, engine lathe and bridgeport mill. All on a 100A single phase service in my shop. I can run the minimill2 and any one of the machines on the converter at the same time.
 
Should be no problem at all. If you are a one man shop you will only (most likely) be running one machine at a time. Even if the compressor kicks on while your taking a heavy mill cut there should be plenty of reserve.
 
FWIW, I run my shop on a 50A panel out of necessity. You can do just fine if you plan your equipment AND if you will be the only one working in the shop. My 50A panel runs mill, lathe, bandsaw, belt sander, grinder, and more with two workers just fine, never had a problem.

Just to confirm: Definitely hire a professional, licensed electrician, and check his/her references. If needed, get a permit, and get inspected by your city. This makes everything legal and contributes to your home's value when you sell.

LM

AS noted in my reply, if what you are doing is in conflict with the zoning, this could get you shut down.

Tom
 
In the first post it was asked "what is the best way to get three phase". IMO, get a Phase Perfect converter. You can run a 10hp system (30 amp 3 phase) on the 100A panel. This will give you the stability you might need for your VMC. Not cheap, but works like magic. I use a 10hp in my power limited shop.

Why not RPC? If you care.... or if you are going for a permit, your utility will have limit on how big a motor you can place on the residential service. In my area it's 7.5hp. A 7.5 hp motor is a small RPC that would be used to power say a 3-5 hp lathe. Also... is some jurisdictions you cannot connect to the electrical system unless it's with a UL Listed and Labeled device. "Home brew" (you can't take a bunch of UL listed parts ad make a UL listed system) and many commercial rpc are are not listed. A picky Inspector can run your day, as can your Insurance company if you have a fire.
 
I definitely won't be using that much equipment. Likely to start with a knee mill, small collet lathe, compressor and a drill press. But want capacity for a small VMC similar to a Haas TM2P which has a 7.5 HP motor, and per their website, " Haas machines are designed to operate on 195-260 VAC power." So I'm guessing that my 100 amp panel, with little current draw should be sufficient. Just need to decide Rotary phase converter, Variable Frequency Drive, or phase converter? Sounds like the RPC is the cheaper route. ALSO, still a little confused, based on the equip. I've listed would I need this elec.converter for each piece of equipment or is there such a thing as running them all of one type of converter? Much appreciated fellas!!
 
If you put in a Phase Perfect 10hp, you can feed that 30amp output to a set of fused disconnects (per machine), or even just a 3 phase plug strip. It will run all your equipment. Same with a RPC.

You need to talk to a commercial electrician...
 
Isaac338, you're pulling everything off of the 10 phase converter? Does that mean only one piece of equipment can be on at a time, or can more than one be on?
 
Thanks lakeside, I've got one I need to call. Just want some idea at least of what can and can't be done. Thanks for all the input.
 
If you're bringing in an electrician, make sure they understand 3 phase power. A lot of guys do residential electricity and have absolutely no clue what 3 phase is. You probably want someone that does industrial electrical work.
 








 
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