Possible to drill/mill high speed steel in non-annealed state?

Scottl · Oct 12, 2017

I was not able to find an answer after searching for previous threads.

Is it possible to drill or cut slots in as-hardened high speed steel with carbide tools?

The items in question are 1/8" thick blades for jointer/planer. I have neither EDM nor the ability to heat treat HSS.

The intent is to adapt one or two sets of plain (not drilled or slotted) blades that are readily available to a couple of older machines for which replacement blades have not been available for years. When they turn up on ebay they often don't last long.

In the past I have put holes in thin HSS blades using tubing and an abrasive slurry on a drill press but the process is very slow. If I can at least drill holes spaced apart I can cut out the space in between with miniature cutoff wheels although milling would be easier.

Anybody done this?

BSCustoms · Oct 12, 2017

for something this thin I would suggest a carbide spade type drill. Similar to the omega drills for drilling broken fasteners out.

Spin the crap out of it and peck away.

michiganbuck · Oct 12, 2017

I think a slot made with an abrasive wheel is good. A parting wheel on a bench grinder might do well..

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MattiJ · Oct 12, 2017

Scottl said:
I was not able to find an answer after searching for previous threads.

Is it possible to drill or cut slots in as-hardened high speed steel with carbide tools?

The items in question are 1/8" thick blades for jointer/planer. I have neither EDM nor the ability to heat treat HSS.

The intent is to adapt one or two sets of plain (not drilled or slotted) blades that are readily available to a couple of older machines for which replacement blades have not been available for years. When they turn up on ebay they often don't last long.

In the past I have put holes in thin HSS blades using tubing and an abrasive slurry on a drill press but the process is very slow. If I can at least drill holes spaced apart I can cut out the space in between with miniature cutoff wheels although milling would be easier.

Anybody done this?

Milling works at least on the HSS grades that I have tried. Unknown chinesium-HSS seemed quite easy and Cleveland Mo-Max not so easy.
The cheapo 3$ chinese endmills don't last very long and I'm not willing waste anything more expensive.

Edit: And believe or not this was done on a pocket-sized Aciera F1 toy mill

dsergison · Oct 12, 2017

I have an idle wire and a sinker edm, Consider sending it to me. I have to run them occasionally just to blow the cobwebs out and if your time is worth anything, it might make sense to pay me a pittance to burn them for you.

Scottl · Oct 12, 2017

MattiJ said:
Milling works at least on the HSS grades that I have tried. Unknown chinesium-HSS seemed quite easy and Cleveland Mo-Max not so easy.
The cheapo 3$ chinese endmills don't last very long and I'm not willing waste anything more expensive.

Edit: And believe or not this was done on a pocket-sized Aciera F1 toy mill

Good to know. Did you use a lubricant?

I haven't bought the blades yet and wanted some feedback before trying it. I'm mainly thinking of the future because except for blades all the parts that might normally wear out such as bearings, belts, and fasteners are standard sizes and readily available. You can only grind knicked knives so many times and as anyone who has used a jointer or planer knows, no matter how careful you are there is always the chance of an odd stray bit of grit that can chip the edge beyond what normal honing can deal with.

MattiJ · Oct 12, 2017

Scottl said:
Good to know. Did you use a lubricant?

Dry with TIALN coated endmill if it matters.
I got feeling that drilling is maybe the harder part of this task, but like suggested spade style "omega drill" should work.
Don't forget the backing plate when drilling!

DavidScott · Oct 12, 2017

I have only cut Weldon flats on HSS keyseat cutters but it was no issue using dull carbide end mills. I would think good end mills, a stiff cnc, and HSM paths would make the job quite doable. Do not use coolant, just air blast with light DOC. I would avoid drilling if at all possible, but if I had to drill then a spade drill would be my first choice. If I couldn't do it myself then I would take dsergison up on his offer. Hell, it's amazing what aluminum specific end mills will do in hardend steel vise jaws.

Scottl · Oct 12, 2017

DavidScott said:
I have only cut Weldon flats on HSS keyseat cutters but it was no issue using dull carbide end mills. I would think good end mills, a stiff cnc, and HSM paths would make the job quite doable. Do not use coolant, just air blast with light DOC. I would avoid drilling if at all possible, but if I had to drill then a spade drill would be my first choice. If I couldn't do it myself then I would take dsergison up on his offer. Hell, it's amazing what aluminum specific end mills will do in hardend steel vise jaws.

In this case this is a personal project where I intend to do it at home rather than use corporate resources. That means no CNC, no cutters out of a shop drawer - strictly manual on a small mill with cutters I already have. If I can mill it with a carbide end mill I would prefer it to drilling and then slotting, even if it takes a while. As I said, this is advance planning for the day when no new old stock cutters can be had anywhere. Right now there are still some aftermarket cutters for the planer but eventually those may dry up. While I am fond of my stationary tools the portables see a surprising amount of use and it's nice to throw them in the trunk when helping a friend with a home repair project.

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback and if you have any more thoughts by all means share them. One thing I may try is using some old carbide burrs that I occasionally use for things that may be a bit dicey even with a four flute end mill. A bit less aggressive when manual feed is all you have.

Booze Daily · Oct 12, 2017

Just like cutting out a busted tap. Use an old carbide endmill.
Whiz the rpms way up, set your quill stop so the endmill is just touching the part.
Spin the quill stop down a few thou and feed against it. Rinse and repeat til you're thru.
I would just step over about .020/.030 thou, plunge thru and keep stepping over til you get the length of slot you want. Easily done on a BP.

HuFlungDung · Oct 12, 2017

I'd recommend drilling with a carbide ball end mill. It doesn't need to be in pristine condition, but because the corners are 'already gone' you won't have much chipping going on. And there is usually some kind of split point on a ball end mill which will allow it to slowly penetrate the surface, but easier than a chisel point of a spade drill.

SteveBausch · Oct 12, 2017

Plasma cutter would be a candidate

dian · Oct 18, 2017

well, i dont know, matti, sais it works, but last time i tried it was much like friction drilling and the cutter was gone. i was trying to make a hole in 10 mm alesa hss though. of course there are endmills for hard stuff, but very expensive. anyways, what iv learned is to mill hard steel dry. starting around 40 hrc.

Hazzert · Oct 18, 2017

HuFlungDung said:
I'd recommend drilling with a carbide ball end mill. It doesn't need to be in pristine condition, but because the corners are 'already gone' you won't have much chipping going on. And there is usually some kind of split point on a ball end mill which will allow it to slowly penetrate the surface, but easier than a chisel point of a spade drill.

Just like milling out a busted tap, 10k rpm, .001-.002 pecks 2ipm. Works just the same using the depth stop on a manual mill. Just don't get greedy on your pecks or you'll pop the ballnose.

Ron Hofer · Oct 18, 2017

MattiJ said:
Milling works at least on the HSS grades that I have tried. Unknown chinesium-HSS seemed quite easy and Cleveland Mo-Max not so easy.
The cheapo 3$ chinese endmills don't last very long and I'm not willing waste anything more expensive.

Edit: And believe or not this was done on a pocket-sized Aciera F1 toy mill

Should you ever want to grow up and rid yourself of toys, please send that F1 my way. Thanks.

rcoope · Oct 18, 2017

For the record, waterjetting works great. We make weird boring bars out of HSS blanks where we cut one face then turn it 90 degrees and take off material for clearance. If there happens to be a water jet around that you could do it for a suitable donation to the Christmas party fund. Which is unlikely except I flippantly suggested waterjet cutting in a great Kevin Potter thread a few years ago where in fact there turned out to be an underutilized one next door to him!

D Dubeau · Oct 19, 2017

I have cut HSS form tools with regular 4fl generic carbide endmills in a HAAS VF3 mill before without issue. The offer for EDM is a good one too. Somebody with an EDM makes quick work of stuff like this, and sometimes depending on what the have going on it's not even worth dicking around with it yourself.

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Possible to drill/mill high speed steel in non-annealed state?

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