Prices on 30+ year old machines
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  1. #1
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    Question Prices on 30+ year old machines

    I have an opportunity to purchase a small machining business. The current owner is wanting me to come up with the value of his machines and I want to be fair. The only place I can find any info is on Ebay and they're all buy it now prices. The machines are all in working order unless otherwise noted and a lot of tooling and bits will be included.

    1979 Kasuga Model FXV-800 vertical milling machine. 10.5"x47" table, 32" table travel, 12" saddle travel, 17" knee travel, 3hp.

    1978 Bridgeport Series 1 2hp VMM. Variable speed, 9"x42" table, 23 7/8" table travel, 12.5" saddle travel, 14.5" knee travel.

    1988 Supermax YCM-16 VMM. 3hp, 9"x49" table, 34" table travel, 12" saddle travel, 16" knee travel.

    1983 KBC DSR-750S radial arm drill press. 16"x16"x19.5" table, 20 7/8" head travel, 21" vertical travel, 21" column, reverse doesn't work

    1983 Summit 17"-3" Lathe, 9' bed. 17" swing over bed, 27" swing over gap, 3" spindle bore with Yuasa quick change tool post with 9 tool holders.

    1983 ELB 6"x12" surface grinder. 14" table travel, 8" saddle travel.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

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    $10k - 12k

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    For everything, including the tooling?

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    you gave a list of machines not an shop inventory

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    Nothing wrong with using Ebay. Could also check a place like KBC tools. A bunch of old, well maintained tools might be worth 1/2 of new, at best, even though you might be comparing apples to oranges. It boils down to how many of them do you actually want to keep and use? If it's more than what you want, then you just outright tell him so, and that your price on the lot is going to be lower than selling them singly. You can dicker endlessly.

    It is a whole other thing if you're going into business and don't have to move the equipment. You can recoup $10k in your first couple of months. If the stuff is just going to sit around in your possession, then you want it cheap as possible.

    The cost of acquiring a bunch of equipment and installing it is not cheap either. When it comes to starting up a business, $10k is nothing. Chests full of inserts, endmills, broaches, etc, really add up quick.

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    Ken Moss, If you mean material such as steel and aluminum, there isn't anything.

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    You said in your opening line, "buying a business". That's a whole lot different from buying a few machines. A business has customers, current contracts, accounts receivables, property, good will, tooling and on and on. The machines are only a small part of this mix. Is this what you meant?

    Tom

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    Tom, I mispoke, not really buying the "business", just the machines.

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    Honestly, what are they worth to you? If you are going to put them in the garage and excape the wife then consider marriage counseling. Machines too large for hobbyist.

    If you plan on opening a shop then production and prototype is out. Those machine wont cut it. The asain imports are long in the tooth if they have had any real use. Tooling, well, how worn is it.

    If you are planing on a repair shop... You are in michigan. Bet a shop is on every corner.

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    Interesting how he wants YOU to come up with a price for HIS machines.....I would tell him I can't buy them AND sell them. Seems kind of odd.

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    He simply may not know. Or he has a price and is seeing if he can get a higher offer.

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    Piss him off. Offer him five grand. If he counters, you will be close to the number he would take. If he tells you FU and hangs up, he isn't really serious.

    metalmagpie

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    Guess I would say 12 to 19K..if you need the machines...

    Hard to guess with not knowing the condition or if each machine has $5.000 worth of tooling.
    Easy enough to go to Ebay and craigslist to see asking prices. But a machine not having work is worth perhaps scrap or nothing.
    Not any jobs with a shop full of machines and you can only run one at a time and spend 50% of your time out getting jobs so bid $60 and lucky to make $25. and need to find enough work to keep 3 guys working while you are knocking on doors..

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    IMHO its what there worth to you, if your not running his business his machines may well not be a good fit to your product line. Running a business is about being efficient, not on how good a deal you got buying a load of equipment that makes you no money, even if the guy selling them made millions of them.

    Now if there in real good condition well tooled been looked after and you know them and cut a deal transport wise with the owner + there actually of use to you that is a very diffrent story and it may well be worth your while paying over open market pricing just to save on transport costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MS224 View Post
    I have an opportunity to purchase a small machining business. The current owner is wanting me to come up with the value of his machines and I want to be fair. The only place I can find any info is on Ebay and they're all buy it now prices. The machines are all in working order unless otherwise noted and a lot of tooling and bits will be included.

    1979 Kasuga Model FXV-800 vertical milling machine. 10.5"x47" table, 32" table travel, 12" saddle travel, 17" knee travel, 3hp.

    1978 Bridgeport Series 1 2hp VMM. Variable speed, 9"x42" table, 23 7/8" table travel, 12.5" saddle travel, 14.5" knee travel.

    1988 Supermax YCM-16 VMM. 3hp, 9"x49" table, 34" table travel, 12" saddle travel, 16" knee travel.

    1983 KBC DSR-750S radial arm drill press. 16"x16"x19.5" table, 20 7/8" head travel, 21" vertical travel, 21" column, reverse doesn't work

    1983 Summit 17"-3" Lathe, 9' bed. 17" swing over bed, 27" swing over gap, 3" spindle bore with Yuasa quick change tool post with 9 tool holders.

    1983 ELB 6"x12" surface grinder. 14" table travel, 8" saddle travel.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    When using eBay for pricing do an "Advanced" search The advanced button is jut to the right of the normal search button.

    On the advanced search page check the box in the "Search Including" section that says "Sold Listings". This will tell you what the machines actually sold for. Not just the asking prices. I used it when looking for a 24" x 36" Challenge surface plate. The asking prices were often many times the actual selling price. There were several listings that were asking north of $1,000.00. The selling prices were between $100.00 and $200.00.

    When looking at Bridgeport's the prices are all over the map. Some have sold for as much as $20,000.00. Others went for as little as $950.00.

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    I'd pay 10k for the Lathe, the BP and the Surface Grinder....I'd also pay 10k for it all. It really depends on you. Adama makes a good point about Transportation, moving all that stuff will be expensive.

    Tooling OTOH is a make or break deal IMO. In the OP you say "a lot of tooling and bits" are included, and you aren't British. This isn't meant to sound rude (pretty sure), but do you know what you are buying? What might be an example of the difference between a Tooling and a Bit?

    BUT you are from Michigan, so you must be a Mechanic or a Machinist, right

    R

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    I kinda sorta agree with the prices that have been put out to a point. Condition is everything. You also have 4 machines that will be difficult if not impossible to get parts for (hint, the BP and Elb aren't on that list). Without seeing the machines it's impossible to put an accurate price on them. If they need work and you got them for free, you could still come out on the loosing end with rigging and transport costs.
    JR

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  22. #18
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    The machines are already in place. Previous owner was renting space from us so no cost in moving.

    Employee that operated machines is also in place.

    I'm a farmer so understand business and know that if they're not working they're not making me money.

    What I meant by bits was drill bits, maybe just should've used the term tooling and nothing else.

    I appreciate all the comments and opinions, keep them coming if you have anything to add. Thanks!

  23. #19
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    You're a farmer, not really buying the business, just the machines...but an employee comes with the deal? Sharing your purpose in considering buying them would help. If they are on your property, you are in a good bargaining position, because the owner has to get them gone if you do not buy, but I do not see what you are trying to end up with.

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  25. #20
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    There are three Vertical Milling Machines. Does the OP need three of them? Perhaps one would do, maybe the cleanest one?


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