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R-8 versus Kwik Switch on manual mill

E

ewlsey

Diamond
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Location
Peoria, IL
I picked up a Lagun FTV-2 with an R-8 spindle. The variable speed mechanism had been cannibalized, so I bought a whole head from another machine. The new head is a Kwik Switch 200.

I've never used a Kwik Switch setup. A quick search of ebay shows pretty limited options for tooling. I see maybe one manufacturer of a new tools.

Should I stick to the R-8 or is this Kwiw Switch some kind of well kept secret?
 
I would definitely go with the Kwik Switch if the spindle is in good shape, I'd check to make sure the taper looks good and the nut is OK but think those are still sold if needed. We had them on 99% of the Bridgeports in the shop I worked in and really found an appreciation for them quickly. Tools seat as well as a #30 of #40 NMTB holder and it's all done at the spindle nose with a spanner wrench. Universal Engineering, DeVlieg Micro Bore and some others were merged and as far as I know are still available. I bought some new stuff in the past but don't remember the new company name off hand, possibly a google search will shed some light there? The 200 series is probably the most popular size they made and collectors scarf up all the deals that come along fast.
Dan
 
Collis Rapid Switch is the same thing RS200..

If it was a CNC machine, I would say go with the kwik switch... Manual.. Half dozen
of one, six of the other.

Its not a great and wonderful tool holding system, though its better than nothing and it
fits where an R8 would normally fit. No drawbar to deal with either.

The biggest downfall is getting your hands on tool holders. If it was a 300 size, they would
basically be free, but the 200's are hard to come by and they aren't cheap..

The other thing that bugged me about them.. Seems all you could find for collet holders was AF's
(Acura Flex), which are not all that common.. I was lucky since that is what the old Acro-locs liked
to use.

I guess it would really depend on what type of work you do, and where you see yourself going
in the future.
 
I would go with the kwik switch. Whoever invented the R8 system is without a doubt one of the biggest assholes who ever lived. As mentioned above, the only real drawback to the kwik switch is the availability of tool holders.
 
I have the R-8 to KS 200 adapter on one of my BPs other than eating up some Z which with a 6"riser ain't a big issue,I love the system. Just wish the spindle was a native KS 200 to remove the runout possible with the adapter.Got 8 or so holders in the 3/8& 3/4 series collet sizes. Only missing a few collets from 1/16 to 3/4 by 64s. I occasionally do bolt patterns which require drilling &tapping. Beats the snot out of using a drill chuck. By buying and selling a few lots over the last few years my set cost is on the negative side . [Gloat] If you can find some deals on holders and collets or end mill holders a nice system to have and use.
 
ewlsey said:
I picked up a Lagun FTV-2 with an R-8 spindle. The variable speed mechanism had been cannibalized, so I bought a whole head from another machine. The new head is a Kwik Switch 200.

I've never used a Kwik Switch setup. A quick search of ebay shows pretty limited options for tooling. I see maybe one manufacturer of a new tools.

Should I stick to the R-8 or is this Kwiw Switch some kind of well kept secret?
Click to expand...

OLD and taken-for granted, not secret. Person dasn't realize just how much of a limiter R8 is - also "taken for granted" - until they've NOT had to deal with it for a while.

A "native" KS spindle is a Godsend. You will grow to love the system ESPECIALLY vs R8.

I use another system and against #9 B&S or 40-taper, so not directly related, but their sales blurb happens to be written in a "generic" manner, covers QC systems in general.

Note the claims for productivity gains of 30%.

All depends on what you are doing, of course, but at least it CAN happen, and time is money:

Quick Change Tooling - PDQ Marlin Tool

Time is not so much "money" for me, but.. the smallest size of PDQ can drop one tool for another with only a half-inch of daylight needed, and no air-ticket booked to mess with the drawbar. I'm old, bad back and knees, balance is going dodgy. That matters.

Try that with either a #9 B&S or R8, no Z move wanted. Just ain't happening.
 
It's interesting...if I had a ks200 spindle, i'd put it in my other machine. But, I've also considered having the ks200 changed to nmtb30. I figure i could damn near do it without spending a dime once i sold all my ks200.

It's really just the scarcity of ks200 that keeps me from enjoying it.
 
" Seems all you could find for collet holders was AF's
(Acura Flex), which are not all that common.. "

Collis I think is the brand of the ER-40 chuck on my VN2G, but it's KS300. Not sure if they make a KS200 version of it.
 
Well, it turns out I have a Quick Change 30, not a Kwik Switch 200. So, the spindle is a NMTB 30. I'm not sure yet if I can use regular NMTB 30 holders or if I need the for real Ericson Quick Change 30s.

Either way, I'll take a 30 taper over R-8 any day.
 
Assuming your spindle is hollow, if you want to use a drawbar you can use regular NMTB30 holders. If you want to use the quick change nut then the tool holder flange dimensions are critical to ensure positive locking of the tool. As far as I can tell for QC30 the flange needs to be Ø46mm, thickness 8.76mm. NMTB/ISO 30 flange sizes tends to have a larger diameter and thinner thickness of the flange, so assuming it will fit inside it is unfortunately loose when the nut is tightened up. In a pinch you can build it up with weld and turn the diameter down but on this side of the pond there is plenty of tooling going about second hand and new tooling is available although not to the quality of the older, also QC30 commands a significant price premium over NMTB/ISO 30.

The only major down side I've encountered is that they never made a right angle adapter for this spindle nose and my quillmaster will sit in its box indefinitely as it is also not compatible.

Having said all that I'll also take a 30 taper over a R-8 any day.

Steve
 
Stvy said:
The only major down side I've encountered is that they never made a right angle adapter for this spindle nose
Click to expand...

"They" who?

http://pdq-marlin.com/pdq-cat.pdf

Starting page 38.

They have competition.

There is no shortage of tooling so long as American companies still custom-make whatever we need, yeah unto the third generation.

We all share a different curse. Shortage is not IN the metal.

The shortage of money FOR it!
 
Stvy said:
Assuming your spindle is hollow, if you want to use a drawbar you can use regular NMTB30 holders. If you want to use the quick change nut then the tool holder flange dimensions are critical to ensure positive locking of the tool. As far as I can tell for QC30 the flange needs to be Ø46mm, thickness 8.76mm. NMTB/ISO 30 flange sizes tends to have a larger diameter and thinner thickness of the flange, so assuming it will fit inside it is unfortunately loose when the nut is tightened up. In a pinch you can build it up with weld and turn the diameter down but on this side of the pond there is plenty of tooling going about second hand and new tooling is available although not to the quality of the older, also QC30 commands a significant price premium over NMTB/ISO 30.
Click to expand...

Actually, since the QC-30 retainer collar is adjustable, I've heard that it can be re-adjusted to firmly grasp the thinner flange, so the only problem is the diameter of the flange, and that can be turned or ground down. However, once the collar is adjusted for the thinner flanges, it may not lock up on real QC-30. Try it and see.

To adjust; there are three button head cap screws in the perimeter of the locking collar; two short, one long. Remove them. The long one is the stop, while the other two just fill the extra holes. If the collar has been in service for a while, good luck getting them out. The heads wear down to the point where there is no hex socket left.

Dennis
 
Modelman said:
Actually, since the QC-30 retainer collar is adjustable, I've heard that it can be re-adjusted to firmly grasp the thinner flange, so the only problem is the diameter of the flange, and that can be turned or ground down. However, once the collar is adjusted for the thinner flanges, it may not lock up on real QC-30. Try it and see.

To adjust; there are three button head cap screws in the perimeter of the locking collar; two short, one long. Remove them. The long one is the stop, while the other two just fill the extra holes. If the collar has been in service for a while, good luck getting them out. The heads wear down to the point where there is no hex socket left.

Dennis
Click to expand...

How does it do with CAT or BT? Those are in the market, too.
 
ewlsey said:
The flange is significantly thicker on the BT. I've never actually seen a Cat 30.
Click to expand...

Nor I. 40 (and up) only. It may not exist in the wild. Never seen an ER 50 or ER 60, either, listing only, a possible typo or BS, even so.

30 taper is far scarcer than 40 or 50 anyway.
 
Monarchist said:
How does it do with CAT or BT? Those are in the market, too.
Click to expand...

Discussion with dimensions half way down this page:

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

I can't really vouch for any of the interchangeability; when I got a Bridgeport BOSS with a QC-30 spindle years ago, I tooled what I needed. After MSC bought Kennemetal, I figured availability was going to suffer, so I bought more. Now it appears that any QC-30 toolholders other than set screw endmill holders will be $pecial order from someone... and no, I don't want to know the price.

Dennis
 
not to hijack thread but that is the truth about AF colletts where can you get em? sorry for interrupt
but kwik switch 200 are real handy.
 
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