Introduction

One month ago I bought a 1947 Do-All V-36 saw as part of a package deal for some other machinery. I had been looking for a Do-All, but didn't intend to buy one that day, especially a 36". A quick inspection suggested that although the saw looked terrible, it appeared mechanically sound under all the junk. The purpose of this thread is to document the rebuild of this saw to factory-new condition.

Why rebuild a 62 year old saw?

Before beginning, addressing this question is worthwhile, as an insight to my philosophy.

Many people would say it's a waste of effort and I should buy a "newer" saw. My answer is that every used machine has problems, just like every used car. Unlike a used car, a machine's problems directly affect my ability to produce a product to the level of quality I demand of myself and my customers expect. This saw will function as-new when I'm done.

The basic design of this saw has remained unchanged. The current incarnation of this machine is the Do-All 3613-1 The only thing the 3613-1 offers over my V-36 is a higher band speed, 5,200 FPM versus 1,600 FPM. A VFD and input pulley change can fix this, should I decide it's worthwhile.

Beyond that, I enjoy the work. Rebuilding a well-built American machine tool is like rebuilding a vintage fine automobile or airplane. It's an exercise is preservation, pride and craftsmanship.

Do-All's 3613-1:



Initial Data

I'd like to thank PM's Grey Rider for his website chronicling the rebuild of a 1941 16" Metalmaster. I found his site several years ago and read every page one evening. 3 years later, his information helped me to evaluate my machine before purchasing. Unfortunately, his website is no longer available. Most of the data can be found in the Web Archive here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200705191.../bandsaw.shtml

Edit:

Here is Grey Rider's current webpage. Thanks to Crrmeyer for finding it.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rcbattelle/bandsaw.html

The operating and parts manuals for nearly all Do-All machines can be found on Do-All's website:

www.doallsawing.com

I completely agree. I bought a old Doall vertical saw, and with new bearings and tires, it has been a great little machine. I say "little" because mine is an old 12" model J.

Have a 3613-2 (1973) I bought for $450 needing tranny fixed (three speed) and upper quide bar replaced (it had none)

Looks like when I get it going it will be fine.

It replaced an early forties V36 that was too far gone.

John Oder

Yes..... rebuild.

Here's mine, full refurbishment, completely dissassembled, sandblasted to bare metal and started over, trans rebuild, tires etc.

Many new parts from DoAll, common parts are very reasonable, tires etc.

Smooth and quiet.

Welder is original and works first time every time

Can't recall the exact year, but in the 40's.

Only thing I would change is the big DoAll decal, I like the red version better as used on the Zepher model.

Need to add a chip tray and new job selector to finish.

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Jefferson:

I was unaware Do-All made a saw that small! That must have been very early on. Late 30's maybe?

John:

Wow, the previous owner must have really abused it. I will say, if the machine is picked up by the table, that just about scraps it, regardless of the mechanical condition. The Bakelite vari-drives are interesting as well.

I'll be getting into this transmission soon, with photos.

MWTech:

Very nice work! That's where I'm headed. Complete from the ground up rebuild.

PART TWO, THE TEARDOWN
Here are a few photos showing the "before" condition of the overall machine:







Disassembly

The first step in any rebuild is disassembly. I take an organized approach to rebuilding, to help keep things in order. The machine is first broken down to basic assemblies, leaving only the bare frame. After cleaning and repainting the frame, individual assemblies can be broken down themselves, the necessary work performed, and then hung on the renewed frame. In this way, disorderly boxes of parts are kept to a minimum and the project progresses with a minimum of fuss.

The first rule of disassembly is to bag and tag all the small parts! Zipper bags and note paper work well for this.

The second rule of disassembly is to take it slow. Take the time to study things and find the best method. In an old machine, it's easy to get carried away with the hammer and break something, which will only add to the work later when you have to fix it.

The third rule of disassembly is to document everything. Before digital cameras, I made notes on all the important points and tricky assemblies. Now, I simply use a camera to take lots of photos of the disassembly process. A few notes stuffed in the hardware bags on shim positions, fastener locations, fits, etc. keep those details in order.

Disassembling the Top End

The "Top End" consists of the band wheels, trunnions, band wheel doors, etc. This is all easy work.

The upper band wheel door is counterbalanced by a huge spring. The door must be opened almost 150 degrees to remove tension from the spring so the pin can be driven from the counterbalance chain and the spring removed from the frame.

The band wheel door is about 60 lbs and secured by two separate 1/4" hinge pins. I like to use Dupont's Multi-Purpose Teflon spray for this kind of thing. Spray down the pins though the hinge gaps, then pound a 3/16" rod though the hinges to extract the 1/4" pins. The door is then easily removed.

Next up is removing the trunnions and upper band wheels. The left idler wheel and trunnion can be removed as an assembly by loosening the three bolts holding the trunnion to the frame through the wheel's lightening holes.

NOTE: Both band wheel trunnions and the drive gearbox are shimmed or adjusted to the frame. Be certain to look for and note the location and thickness of the shims!

Here are the shims removed from behind the left idler trunnion:



A view of where the left idler trunnion mounts:



Once the left idler trunnion and wheel assembly has been removed, the right idler can be tackled. The first step here is to remove the band wheel to access the attachment bolts. To do this, remove the tracking adjustment knob and lock knob. Then, use a gear puller to pull the wheel off. Use a washer, socket, or similar to protect the stub shaft.

The removed tracking adjustment knob:



Pulling the right idler wheel:



Here, I found my first problem. The bearing nut securing this idler wheel was extremely loose. In addition, the stub shaft is loose in the trunnion casting. I may have to make a new shaft and heat fit it into the trunnion.

Be sure to take note of any shims used on the stub shaft between the trunnion and the band wheel. I had several.

Before removing the upper trunnion, remove the blade guide elevating and clamping controls. The elevating wheel on the top is pinned to it's shaft. The clamping handle can be screwed out with it's shaft after the elevating wheel has been removed.

I should mention that Do-All used several different designs for their upper trunnions. The "early" style was a massive cast-iron frame bolted to the left side of the upper C-frame. My saw has the slightly "later" trunnion, which is bolted to a 3/8" sheet of steel welded into the bandwheel cavity. It is adjusted with a set of concentric bolts instead of shimming, as with the older trunnions. As a consequence, it is vitally important to avoid turning the adjustment bolts.

The center bolts secure the trunnion to the frame. The larger, concentric bolts bear on the frame, providing the adjustment. The nuts at the bottom of the trunnion lock the adjustment. Hold the concentric adjustment bolt while initially loosening the securing bolt.

The right idler trunnion assembly:



This style of trunnion is pinned to the frame. To remove this, install longer bolts where the securing bolts came out. Then, use a gear puller to pull on the concentric adjustment bolt, extracting the trunnion from the alignment pins. Slide the trunnion off onto the bolts, then remove the trunnion.

Extracting the trunnion from the alignment pins:

Removing the Tables

The auxillary table uses the same concentric bolt system as the "late" style right idler trunnion. Simply remove the center bolts and lift off the table. With the table off, unbolt and remove the cast iron table riser, then remove and bag all the hardware.

Two of the four aux. table concentric bolts (loosened):



The main table is a little more challenging. On my saw, the table is 31" square. A quick calculation put the table weight at somewhere between 200lbs and 250lbs. For this step, I used a forklift. Before beginning, remove any feed or workholding accessories mounted to the table.

Underneath the table you'll need to remove 12 bolts. 8 of them connect the trunnion pivot bracket to the table bottom. 4 bolts secure the table trunnion pivot straps. Loosen and remove 6 of the 8 pivot bracket bolts, but only loosen the trunnion pivot strap bolts.

Underneath the table. Four of the 8 trunnion pivot bracket bolts, and one of the trunnion pivot straps:



With the hardware loosened, place the forklift forks just barely touching the underside of the table. Remove the remaining hardware and lift off the table. Easy does it!

Removing the table:



With the table off, you can now attack the trunnion. It is amazing how small the trunnion pivot is! Removing the trunnion clamp pivot nut, then removing the lower blade guide assembly will release the table trunnion from the trunnion base. Be careful, as the blade guide assembly is pinned to the trunnion base.

Trunnion and guide assembly:



Blade guide and holder, showing alignment pins:



With the trunnion pivot off, the trunnion base can be removed. It can be debated whether this needs to be removed. However, I decided to remove it so it would not be subjected to sandblasting. There are four internal wrenching bolts on the "back" side, under all the crap. There are also two 5/16 pins aligning this assembly. Use care when parting the two.

Disassembling the "Power Feed"

These saws generally came with a weight-actuated power feed. To disassemble it, first remove all the old, frayed cable assemblies. To do this, remove the lower pulley from the weight bracket.

Then, remove the weight. This is a solid cast-iron block, which I estimate to be about 75 lbs. Simply remove the jammed nuts on the end of the adjustment shaft and crank the feed adjustment wheel until the weight falls off the end. Easy!

Running the weight off:



To remove the power feed system, pull the foot pedal and part the balance chain at the foot pedal by driving out the pin. With that removed, pull the adjuster handwheel by parting it at the U-joint inside the frame. The wheel itself is secured to it's shaft with a malleable taper pin which cannot be driven out. On the U-joint you'll encounter both a set screw and a pin securing the shaft. Then, remove the four bolts securing the power feed trunnion to the frame and pull the whole assembly out of the frame.

The removed power feed assembly:



Disassembling the Drive

The drive is a classic machine tool vari-drive. It is not difficult to remove, although some parts are rather heavy.

The Vari-Drive, with it's Bakelite sheave. These sheaves are generally beyond repair. They tend to crack radially outward from the steel center bearing, eventually breaking up into chunks. This pulley set is in excellent condition!

Note the pivot pin for the Bakelite sheave set and how it has walked back over an inch in it's bore. When I operated the machine before purchase, this pin made a loud clanging sound against the machine frame as the sheaves walked up and down with the chewed up belts. The only thing that stopped this pin from completely walking out was the machine frame. Hopefully, I don't have to bore and bush this pin's fit.

The Vari-Drive:



The first step is to cut off the old belts. Mine were rather ugly looking, as the photo below shows. The vari-drive sheave had really chewed up both drive belts.

The chewed up upper belt:



With the belts off, remove the various control shafts and U-joints for the gearbox. The U-joints are secured by a single set screw and a pin, same as the power feed control. Don't forget to remove the control rod that prevents shifting gears in the gearbox unless the vari-drive is cranked all the way to "low".

I had a problem here, as one of the pins did not want to drive out of the shaft. I was afraid of cracking the cast-iron boss, so I decided to drill out the pin.

Drilling the pin:

Now, remove the two bolts securing the air pump and motor mount to the base. Drag the whole assembly out of the frame. The motor is a Peerless 1HP 1740 RPM plain-bearing job, 40C temperature rise. I'd say it weighs 75 lbs.

Unfortunately, the motor shaft has around 3/16" endplay and about .015 radial play in the bearings. I'll probably replace this motor with a new 1.5 or 2HP 3-phase TEFC motor.

Here's the removed motor and air pump assembly:



With room to work, enter the frame and remove the three bolts securing the vari-drive trunnion to the frame. There are no alignment pins or shims here.

Removing the Old Electrical

The electrical system is very straightforward. A NEMA size 00 starter is mounted on the back, with a control transformer for control and lighting. None of my controls, with the exception of the "Start" and "Stop" pushbuttons were original. Simply remove all of this stuff for possible re-use. Pull the old flexible conduit and wire for disposal.

The inside of the Allen Bradley "Start" "Stop" switch box. Spotless, after 62 years! I intend to re-use these, I think:



Inside the starter. I'll re-use the starter as well:



I should spend a moment on the blade welder to mention that it's HEAVY! I would estimate about 70 lbs. I tested my welder before removing it and found it it operating condition! Not bad, after 62 years. The grinder motor was running quiet as a mouse, too.

Four screws secure the welder to the frame. Once removed, the welder should pivot out on the lower bracket where you can cut the wires and lift it out. For some reason, my welder was mounted on a section of 1/4" plywood, which is not stock.

The removed blade welder, showing the "interesting" side:



Final Disassembly and Power Washing

Now is the time to remove all the badges, damaged placards, hand knobs, etc. from the frame, and doors in preparation for sandblasting.

After removing all the remaining parts, I cleaned out a few dustpan loads of crap from inside the machine. Along with a dead mouse, a Planter's Peanut Brittle and package, I found an Army and Air Force Exchange Service wrapper.

The AAFES wrapper. During her long history and four paint jobs, she must have served her country in either the Army or the Air Force:



After removing the bulk of the solid gunk, I power washed the machine thoroughly using "Foamy Engine Brite" degreaser.

Machine porn, a naked Do-All:



A little humor

Before I conclude this section, I thought I should add one little detail. While playing with the Job Selector for this machine, which included all kinds of "vintage" materials like "Duralumin" and "Armor Plate", I found one which I thought OSHA might like:



I bet that makes a healthy dust cloud.

Teardown Finished!

This concludes tearing the machine down and the initial cleaning. In the next installment, I'll tackle sandblasting and re-painting the frame and doors.

I thing this may be the current version of Grey Rider's Do-all rebuild web page:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rcbattelle/bandsaw.html

I think my saw is from the late 30's. It's marked Doall Contour Machine, Continental Machine Specialties. As far as I can tell they went with the Doall name after 1940. I found it on craigslist and was skeptical that is was a Doall because I had never seen one before. I didn't know the model number but eventually found the manual for it on the Doall website.

http://www.doallsawing.com/doallcomm...l_J-JD-JXD.pdf

It's very basic but has all essential features and is very stout.

Nice work on your saw, looks like you're on your way to a first class rebuild.

A Pmech,

A worthy project for what you will get upon completion. Here is a 1939 V-16 I did last year. It's really nice to see old tools get a new lease on life.

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Looks like this should be a good reading. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the updated link crrmeyer, I'll edit the post.

Jefferson, interesting... I don't know much about Do-All's early history, now I know a little piece. It's interesting to see that they adopted the vari-drive arrangement very early on!

Thanks for the comments guys. I should have more to add next week!

Sorry about that. Time Warner changed their web server address about a year ago, which screwed up anyone who had bookmarked my site, and also more-or-less eliminated my site from most search results.

But, as you've found, it's all still out there.

Nice machine, PMech! Looks to be in outstanding shape. I'm surprised you had to pull off the top wheel. My saw has the identical design but the wheel slid off easily by hand. Good thing - my wheels are solid aluminum! I'd need a huge puller.

Mine was made in '41, and it's interesting to see the subtle changes in the design. The variable speed pulley, for example, acquired an oil cover on the end of the spindle that isn't present on mine.

If you send me your serial number and a decent overall photo of your saw I'll put it on my website in the "Gallery of DoAlls".

Ryan

Ryan,

No problem. I figured that's what happened, because I saw your new site one evening a few weeks ago. When I started this thread, I couldn't remember where I saw it, so I liked to the Web Archive.

It's actually in excellent shape, I'm surprised. It's covered in grime and gunk, but other than a few little issues, so far it needs only minor repairs and parts changes. There isn't so much as a ding on the machine anywhere and all the "sheet metal" aka 1/8" sheet is unbent. Amazing!

That would be great! Feel free to use any of the photos in this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have anything really good. All the photos were casual "in progress" photos, thus the bad framing and whatnot. It's a 1947 V-36, S/N 36474059 Once I get my website up, we'll have to exchange links.

Thanks again for taking the time to document your rebuild. It was, and is, a great help to me. Hope yours is running well.

Regards,

John

that looks like my old Do All. I painted it with blue Hammertone, but sold it on ebay in 05 or 06, hmmm

Surplus,

That would be something...

But I doubt you would have painted the table trunnion slideways.

Part Three, Sandblasting

After a little delay here at the shop, I finally found some time to sandblast the main frame, doors and associated parts.

Repairing the Blasting Pot

Before I could get into blasting, I had to come up with a fix for my sandblaster. The local supply house decided to switch the brand of blasting pot the sell. In the process, they changed the consumables they supply as well. The photo below tells the story. On the right is the ceramic nozzle my blaster uses, which was the last one I had. On the left is the nozzle my local house now carries.



Not to be deterred, or forced into waiting a week for an order, I went back to the plumbing section. There, I bought a new 1/2" valve, 1/2" IPS to 5/8" flare adapter and a 5/8" flare nut.

Once back at the shop, I bored the inside of the flare nut to accept the ceramic nozzle. Then, I faced off the end of the flare nut adapter. A quick test showed everything fit as it should, so I made up some silicone gaskets.







Here are all the parts of the new gun, ready for assembly:



Back in business! New gun on top, old one on the bottom:



With plenty of sand on hand, we began blasting.







This evening we wrapped up the sandblasting and I took a trip up town to buy paint at the local NAPA.

I'll be using Acme FP-301 etching sandable primer followed by Cross Fire 55A Urethane Enamel in color 51060, Med. Gray

Better painting though chemistry:

As a side-note, I cleaned up the serial plate for the machine today.



The other plates are severely damaged, mainly due to an errant wire brush by a previous painter. I will be etching new plates from new artwork, once the rest of the machine is completed.



A NOTE OF CAUTION: One thing you might notice about these plates, especially the cleaned serial plate, is that they are not anodized but lacquered. For this reason, don't try using paint remover on old data plates!

PART 4-A, PRIMING

This weekend I was able to prep and prime all the major saw parts. No major issues here, other than a slight shortage of primer and a skipping gun towards the end.

Long story short, when I last cleaned my gun I managed to lose the needle bushing and seal in the spray head of the gun. It's a little Nylon job, about 1/4" dia by 1/4" long, with a .117" hole though the middle. I made one out of some scrap nylon yesterday afternoon before painting. It worked well for a while, then the gun started sucking air. I think I drilled the hole a tad large. Maybe this is my excuse to move into the 1990's and buy an HVLP gun? :lol_hitti

I budgeted one quart of primer for this project and that was *JUST BARELY* enough to do the job at a 1:1 reduction, which gave me two quarts mixed. 2.5 quarts would have been better. Although chromate free, the primer reminds me of older mil-spec zinc chromate primer in both looks and application technique. It must be misted on lightly to avoid runs and sags and almost has a translucent effect in the first two coats. If it is sprayed lightly, it is a very forgiving product. It is dust-free in about 7-10 minutes at 70F, which makes it great for outdoor painting.

Painting Prep

After sandblasting, there are always small areas where some of the paint remains. It's hard to catch every little paint spot when you can barely see though your blasting hood. In the case of this saw, most of those areas were due to soft paint, which is resistant to sand blasting as it simply repels the sand. In addition, the saw had a few nasty weld spots and a couple minor digs and dings. All of these must be addressed before priming.

One of the nasty weld lines on the exterior of the frame:



A nasty weld on the chip chute before:



The same area after a little flap wheel work:



I began by addressing the the paint problem with a knotted wire brush and a 36-grit flap wheel on a 4" grinder. First, I ran the flap wheel over any soft paint areas, gouges, and rough metal spots removing and fairing them smooth. Then, I gave the saw a quick all-over brushing with the wire wheel, removing or knocking down any rough areas left over by the sandblaster.

After flap wheeling and wire brushing the main frame:



Bethlehem Steel

While wire wheeling the machine base, which is 5/8" plate, I found the stamp of the Bethlehem Steel Corp:



1947 was a time when America actually made things.

Filler

After wire wheeling all the main assemblies I brought in the body filler. I prefer NAPA CUZ polyester body filler. Out of the can, it is gray in color. Mixing in the blue hardener results in a light-blue filler when mixed correctly. Application is with a small, flexible nylon applicator. I concentrated on the ground down weld lines on the exterior of the machine, in addition to a few dings in the main frame.



After waiting a few hours for the filler to harden, I came back in with the jitterbug and 100-grit sandpaper. Even with this relatively coarse grit, initial progress is slow. The filler has a soft outer skin which clogs the paper. Once though the skin, sanding and fairing can be done rapidly.



Priming

As I said earlier, the primer I chose reminds me of zinc chromate primer. I had a few problems at first remembering how to shoot it, as I was trying to put it on a little too heavy. After a gun adjustment and an "application technician" adjustment, things went well. I plan to order an additional quart of color, which I will intermix with the quart I already have. This saw has more surface area than it looks!

It is a challenging project to paint, with all the angles and dangles. Many surfaces are impossible to paint directly, such as inside the blade guard and chip chute. The best I could do was simply point the gun into the area and try to mist everything. I did miss a few small spots, but they're all inside the machine. I have a feeling Do-All's painters wouldn't have done any better in 1947!

Here it is, after priming: