Thread: recommendations for drilling music wire

Originally Posted by Joe Miranda

The dia. is .156 and we are drilling a .125 hole axially.

You might seriously consider sending these out for sinker EDM work. Holding a 0.015" wall when drilling 6D deep into Rc40-60 material sounds dicey to me.

What sfriedberg said!

5K parts finished wall thickness of roughly a business card does not sound like a normal drilling operation....

Paul

Originally Posted by sfriedberg

You might seriously consider sending these out for sinker EDM work. Holding a 0.015" wall when drilling 6D deep into Rc40-60 material sounds dicey to me.

Why do you think a Sinker would do a better job than a Drill? You still need it to go straight and a Sinkers Electrode will burn through the side wall easier than a Drill wandering out the side.

And for 5k pieces I wouldn't even consider EDM.

R

My .156 dia hardinge collet has a griping length of about .600. When you are at final depth ,you DONT want to be gripping on a THIN WALL TUBE.It might close in on your drill, Or push back in the collet. You might need to center drill and drill .4 deep then open collet and advance part .4 and finish drill. How ever you do it, I think you need to center drill.If these parts are coming to you already cut off.,they could be sheared off ruffly ,if they are cut on a lathe they will have a tit on them that will cause you drill to wander and break, you are drilling 5 1/2 times dia.your drill might be 8 or 10 times dia.,this is pretty flimsy. This might be a job for a swiss type machine. Edwin Dirnbeck

Originally Posted by sfriedberg

You might seriously consider sending these out for sinker EDM work. Holding a 0.015" wall when drilling 6D deep into Rc40-60 material sounds dicey to me.

There's $.85 total in these! That's right - eighty five cents per! You're kidding me right? Do you own or run a business?!! Sheesh - sinker edm? Really?!! Most of the time I ignore this stuff but come on guys - I asked for recommendations from guys that have experience with this!

$.85 EA? You must be crazy to take a order like that. Oh, yes I know. What you lose on each one you will make up in volume.

Tom

Originally Posted by TDegenhart

$.85 EA? You must be crazy to take a order like that. Oh, yes I know. What you lose on each one you will make up in volume.

Tom

I can beat 1 a minute send them here.

I would buy a solid collet. For something like this I would be using my 5C chuck on the cnc lathe. Time mark it to the chuck (just in case). Bore with a one thou step maybe .500 deep by drilling under size, then bore slightly under also to align, ream to wire size and whisker bore about .0005 to .001 over to the .5 deep. Flip in around and buck in on a manual 3 jaw accu chuck or bored soft jaws. Drill the back for clearance through... bore out so the slotting will compress.


Slice the three slots, clean up and test run... clean up again if needed and run some test pieces.

I don't see the drilling as a problem... just holding it. You may need to drill in undersized two diameters or so then bore it with a small carbide to align and act as a guide then finish drill.

I so want to know what these are for so I can imagine how you would make them from seamless tube, maybe with a plug laser welded in the end. You could get a place like New England Small Tube to send you 5000 tube pieces for pennies. As always on PM, the most challenging jobs seem to have uncertain design rationale!

Originally Posted by Joe Miranda

Walter Titex? Is that a good one to consider?

Walter and Guhring is about all I use for Drills any more. They are really just that much better IMHO than say OSG. That said I will take a Walter drill over Guhring any chance I can.

As for this job this sound like work that should be done on a Swiss if you ask me. At 5OOO pieces @$.85 I bet you could find someone on here to run them at a price you could both make a few bucks. At the very least it would save you all the monkeying to get it to run well, buying carbide drills or a solid collet. Regardless it won't be a fun job if this, not something you do all the time.

Originally Posted by TDegenhart

$.85 EA? You must be crazy to take a order like that. Oh, yes I know. What you lose on each one you will make up in volume.

Tom

Haha - yeah maybe ... won't be the last time I suppose.

Originally Posted by litlerob1

I can beat 1 a minute send them here.

That's what I like to hear ... a little enthusiasm and optimism. We can't send everything to China.

Originally Posted by litlerob1

I can beat 1 a minute send them here.

That's about $51 per hour MINUS a bunch of broken expensive carbide drills. My lawn mower shop charges $85 per hour PLUS parts markup.Notice the plus and minus"Dont cast your pearls before swine." Edwin Dirnbeck

Originally Posted by edwin dirnbeck

That's about $51 per hour MINUS a bunch of broken expensive carbide drills. My lawn mower shop charges $85 per hour PLUS parts markup.Notice the plus and minus"Dont cast your pearls before swine." Edwin Dirnbeck

Woah, you know my shop rate?

Edwin Dirnbeck, I said I can BEAT 1 a minute. My shop rate varies from some to more. I have 2 Hardinge/Omniturns front to front that don't get used as much. One guy 2 machines that would eat that job up, 30 square feet and 5000 pieces. Also don't ass-u-me that you know what my overhead is, or that we work on the same level in any way, shape or form. ASSUMPTION is the mother of all fuck ups.

Don't hold you balls before hungry pigs either. Quoting the Bible is out of taste here mate.

R

.85 a minuet is a decent rate..I have a grinding job that runs $2.50 on the machine but packaging and shipping take a crunch. Still I don't get a 5000 piece order.. that is very nice...
But I wonder what the hardness of the OPs part?

Pre heat treat drill rod is not that bad..Is the piano wire pre heat treat?

A couple of comments. 1) these are not through drilled. 2) hardness has not been established, its just described as a228 music wire which, according to my design handbook, is cold drawn, not heat treated. As such, the stresses probably not uniform in the wire. 3) Is the material supplied in coil or precut? Has the wire be straightened? If coil, do you have a way to straighten it?

Tom

Originally Posted by michiganbuck

.85 a minuet is a decent rate..I have a grinding job that runs $2.50 on the machine but packaging and shipping take a crunch. Still I don't get a 5000 piece order.. that is very nice...
But I wonder what the hardness of the OPs part?

Pre heat treat drill rod is not that bad..Is the piano wire pre heat treat?

I have not checked hardness yet but it can range from 40-60 Rc. If it is much over 45 I will temper them back.

Originally Posted by TDegenhart

A couple of comments. 1) these are not through drilled. 2) hardness has not been established, its just described as a228 music wire which, according to my design handbook, is cold drawn, not heat treated. As such, the stresses probably not uniform in the wire. 3) Is the material supplied in coil or precut? Has the wire be straightened? If coil, do you have a way to straighten it?

Tom

Wire has been straightened and cut to length. I used ERA wire and I'm telling you guys - very impressive service and quality. These things are straight within a couple of thou and they are 9" long.

Your comment about tempering indicates that strength and hardness are not critical. If that is the case then by all means temper them to consistent number. How low can you go? Now I think you have a process!

Tom

Oh ... and one more thing ... we have to turn almost to a point on the opposite end ... so two ops. We're at a little under 30 seconds on the point end. Don't know about the drilling for a few days still.

We have an air cylinder hooked up to the door on the lathe and a foot pedal to control it. We also have an air operated 5C collet chuck so loading and unloading are pretty fast - as long as you keep a good rhythm its not too bad - just not too much beer when running. Just kidding - sheesh (about the beer).

So Tom ... wanna swing by and help me run these?