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So tell me about Shaffer Grinding

DocsMachine

Titanium
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Location
Southcentral, AK
Long story short, I sent a large lathe bed and some other pieces off to be ground some twenty months ago. The grinder has had them for sixteen months and can no longer complete the job. I've decided to bite the bullet and have the pieces shipped to Shaffer in Los Angeles.

What do I need to know or have ready to tell Shaffer? I was relying a bit on the previous shop's experience, as I've never had anything ground like this before. I understand Shaffer is experienced at this sort of thing, but I'm sure I still need to tell them exactly what I want.

The big one is a lathe bed, for my Springfield lathe. Some 11 feet long and 1,500 lb. Standard two prismatic ways, probably 30-40 thou of wear. I plan to build the saddle back up with Moglice, using Shapeaholic's method. I'd rather not have to mill, grind or scrape the headstock to match if I don't have to- the previous shop suggested not grinding under where the headstock goes, as the grinding would narrow the V-way.

I was under the impression that equal grinding on both faces would lower the way, but not necessarily offset or twist it. Not grinding that area could work as well- I'd have to deal with the tailstock, but I was going to have to do at least a little of that anyway.

What's the recommended method? (Keeping in mind I'd rather not have to disassemble the headstock, and that it weighs close to a ton. And I don't own a forklift. :D )

In addition to that, I sent off an old shaper with square ways (ram, column casting, two top way plates and the gib) and the bed and saddle for my Nichols horizontal. Do I need to specify how much clearance I want on these, or can I tell them to just "fit them together"? If I do need to specify a number, what would be an appropriate clearance for them?

And finally, any guesses as to how much this might all cost? I'm pretty much committed at this point, almost regardless of cost, but I'm also not made of money. The original deal was made in a strong effort to save a great deal on shipping costs, but that's all gone out the window now. I'm down into the range of "I'm tired of waiting and ready to hock a kidney to get the damn parts done and back" now. :D

Doc.
 
Shaffer Grinding can tell you the costs. If you relied on Grinder #1's experience, do the same with Shaffer.

As for the previous grinder, if they've had them for 16 months, and you sent them off some 20 months ago, who had them for the other four some months?
 
Well.......I had an unpleasant experience with Shaffer in LA.....
Sent along a Monarch EE for bed regrind and it came back fine...Gauged well. showed good with calibrated straight edge...all good.
Sent along a bed form a 15" Clausing Colchester. Same results....good looking finished part.

Sent the main vertical casting from my Deckel FP3NC for a regrind on the vertical box ways.
The ground the face of the box, the inside faces, and the back faces of the box where the keeper gibs run.
The instructions were to get everything straight and true to each other. To gauge off the original faces top and bottom where there was little to no wear.....

Job took a week and a half from shipping to receiving.
Job looked great! Good finishes, face and back face all parallel as near as i could gauge.....Inside faces to each other measured fine....BUT there was a problem!
Checking with a straight edge the inside faces were wavy. Sort of "S" curved....on both faces and they matched each other so the measurement between each face was good, they just were not straight.
Sort of like a railroad track...going around a corner. parallel at any point, just not straight.

Sent the job back and paid to rework it. On return,gauge with straight edge showed the same issue!
This way surface is flame hardened. Too hard to work using a scraper! My power scraper or my hand carbide blade tools did little but make scratches in the surface. No metal moved!
Finally hired a local scraper hand to "tune" up the inside faces using a small grinder by hand, touching in spots much like one would scrape.

My belief is that the machine they used did not move true in one plane...worked fine on the horizontal flat faces, but not true on the verticals...
Likely re-ground the second time using the same machine with the same results....Buyer beware!

Cheers Ross
 
Right now, I care more about getting them done right, than cheaply. This whole damn fiasco started out with trying to save a buck, and thanks to it, I've been waiting twenty months and still don't have my machines back.

The missing four, by the way, were part of the problem: a local guy was heading out with a trailer to pick up a car and some other equipment. The plan was for him to take my parts down, drop them off at the grinder, and finish his way down to the car. He'd then pick them back up on the return trip (roughly 10 days time for the grinder) and bring them back up to me. Basically I'd split gas costs with him for the whole trip, or about $700.

Problem was, he was supposed to leave Mayish, maybe early June. Didn't actually leave until mid-August, which threw off the schedule we had with the grinder. By that point, there was no way for him to finish them in time for the return trip.

Yeah, this whole mess is going to cost me more than all three machines are even worth, but I'm out of options. It's either this or I scrap the works, and I'm not gonna do that.

Doc.
 
I don’t know about the CA branch, but the Schaffer in Twinsburg OH did 5 or so large blanchard jobs for me (largest was 72” x 44” ish) and did an excellent job. I would see lathe beds and castings/columns of all sorts of machinery when I would pick up or drop off.
 
Nope. That's the big sticking point. :D Anywhere in the States, I'm sure I could find a competent grinding shop within maybe 24 hours' drive- probably less.

But from where I am, it's some 600 miles just to the border. The grinding shop in Vancouver BC is literally the closest one- and that's still something like 2,500 road miles one way.

Doc.
 
Nope. That's the big sticking point. :D Anywhere in the States, I'm sure I could find a competent grinding shop within maybe 24 hours' drive- probably less.

But from where I am, it's some 600 miles just to the border. The grinding shop in Vancouver BC is literally the closest one- and that's still something like 2,500 road miles one way.

I bet it would be cheaper to just buy a replacement lathe and ship it to your shop - pay freight just once.
 
I bet it would be cheaper to just buy a replacement lathe and ship it to your shop - pay freight just once.

-Yes, it would. This whole big lathe thing was not what you'd call a financially wise thing right from the beginning. :D

Things like this are one of many reasons I'm not rich. :)

Doc.
 
I had my 14 X 40 lathe bed ground at Schaffer Grinding in California about 18 months ago and was quite please with the cost, turn around and communication before and after the job.

I advise you to talk with them ASAP regarding price, timeline, and what you want done. My quote was based on metal removal increments of 0.010". Do you want the bed totally cleaned up (more grinding depth = more money) or can you live with a few dings or casting imperfections? If your bed has two flat ways and most do, you might ask them to grind them so they are on the same plane. This makes an excellent reference surface to measure from when rebuilding. Also, request they provide a chart/way profile showing how much metal was removed from each surface.

When my bed was done they called me to tell me the price and at the same time emailed me a drawing of the bed showing the amount of metal removed from each surface. Turned out they forgot one of the surfaces I wanted ground so they set it back on the grinder and finished the job. Very nice people to deal with.

The cost to grind my 14 X 40 bed was $475 with 0.0125" metal removed from the worst surface, freight down was around $450 and return freight was close to $575. I built a sturdy forklift friendly crate with the center of gravity marked and had all the hold down blocking labeled to make it easy and fast to put back.

I believe Moglice recommends a minimum thickness of 060" so keep that in mind when grinding for clearance. It's generally a good idea anyway so you have enough depth for oil grooves.

Ron
 
Sounds like the best way to make money in the grinding business is to be the guy driving the stuff back and forth....
 
Actually, for nc5a, if from Alaska to California and return, the shipping price sounded cheap. Agree, grinding is such a nit picking job I’m amazed anyone makes money.

L7
 
Got an estimate and it looks like over $1,500 to ship from BC to LA, including a crating charge.

Keeping in mind that nc5a's bed was half the size of mine, and I have other parts in there likely totaling close to 3K lb.

I think the worst way on the lathe is something like 40 thou low, but that was admittedly kind of an ad-hoc measurement. The saddle is also worn badly- more than the hardened bed- so I doubt there'll be a problem getting 60 thou depth to the Moglice. :D

Doc.
 








 
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