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Thread: Roll In Band Saw Help
12-15-2009, 09:49 PM #1
Roll In Band Saw Help
I recently picked up a used Roll In band saw for a reasonable price. It has a few miles on it and was shown a lack of love. I provided some needed love and some spare parts to get it back into working condition. I'm quite please with the saw but have a few questions.
I put new rubber tires on both wheels. The top wheel has a lip to retain the rubber tire. The bottom wheel has no lip. The pressure from the blade has a tendency to push bottom tire off the wheel. Is the bottom tire suppose to be glued in place? What is suppose to hold it in place?
Second and lastly, the saw did not come with a hydraulic feed cylinder. Replacement from Roll In is around $400 :0 !!! Quite insane in my book. Looking for anyone that put together their own. I'm thinking Bimba air cylinder and some basic valves and fittings. Any assistance is appreciated.
12-15-2009, 10:48 PM #2
I glued my bottom tire on.
Been a while, I probably used 3M weatherstrip adhesive.
I sourced my damper cylinder thru a local pneumatics supplier.
They identified the OEM of the cylinder.
Approx. $100 in 2003
I'll look for specs tomorrow.
I've made my own out of old flow control valves and air cylinders filled with hyd. oil.
12-16-2009, 07:02 AM #3
I would really appreciate it if you could identify the manufacturer and part number. Pneumatic cylinder with hydraulic oil appears to be the right combination. Ideally the plunger would be sealed inside the cylinder with a cup type of seal. This would allow extension when the hydraulic circuit is locked but not compression.
12-16-2009, 08:42 AM #4
12-16-2009, 09:33 AM #5
Here's a little tip on the Roll-In bandsaw. Drill the table and tap it for a 1/4-20. Put a bolt with a lock nut on it so you have a positive stop that won't move around unless you want it to. It'll keep from cutting into the table and angle plate. I've seen a lot of Roll in's that have been cut all the way into the pin (all be accident of course, Ummm, yeah, sure)
12-16-2009, 05:25 PM #6
The cylinder on mine looks like a standard part. It is a cheap looking little cylinder with a manual valve on it to bleed it however you set the valve. I wonder if the Jet knock off Roll In cylinder would fit.
I like my Roll In because it is simple,and I could make most any part that might go bad,except the cylinder.
The holes near the corners of the miter gauge (they call it the angle plate) are easy to break off. My journeyman broke mine. I want to get around to making a steel one out of a big piece of 6" heavy angle iron I picked up at the junkyard.
I'm going to look in the MSC catalog,and check out the standard cylinders. That is such a rip off,and so is the angle plate!!
Edit: Now that I have looked into the MSC catalog,I think you could buy a double acting air cylinder,and add a small tap to the front end of it. I haven't measured my roll in's cylinder yet,but I can tell you that it is just a bit thicker than the air cylinders that hold car trunks up. If I think of it,tomorrow I'll measure my cylinder,or PM me to remind me.
12-16-2009, 07:54 PM #7
My Roll-in has a rather large cylinder. Looks to be shop assembled and not necessarily stock. A basic double acting cylinder with an adjustable needle valve and a length of tube connecting both ports. The need valve controls flow through the tube into the opposit end of cylinder. I imagine any size would work if you are in the "ballpark". Should just be able to cobble some pieces together and be done. Might need to make some custome brackets depending on the size of the cylinder, but that is all.
12-16-2009, 11:40 PM #8
I used to work at Enidine for 9 years.
The rate control is called an ADA, or adjustable, dual acting.
SP means special.
They are all made by an 70 year old lady named Kay.
She is 7 feet tall and she walks to work every day, summer and winter.
Hands so big, she could palm a basketball.
I am not making any of this up.
Enidine sells them to Roll-in for $97.
Parts and labor cost Enidine $20.
12-21-2009, 07:24 PM #9
Any news on this?
10-11-2010, 02:35 PM #10
10-12-2010, 04:23 AM #11
Yes, you can cobble something together that will work, out of just about any cylinder with enough stroke. I did it for years with only marginal results. The secret to getting it work perfectly, is to add a floating piston above the column of oil on the rod end. This should be spring loaded down against the oil. As the cylinder is compressed from an extended position, the volume of oil displaced from the blind end is greater than the volume of space opened up on the rod end. The floating piston will rise in the cylinder and then fall again when the cylinder is extended. No air entrainment, smooth operation. You will need a cylinder with a longer stroke than the stroke of the saw. Here is one I made. You'll notice a generous amount of cylinder above the return port. This houses the piston, spring, and excess oil when the cylinder is collapsed.
10-12-2010, 10:54 AM #12
Roll In Band Saw Help
I went through the same thing with the cylinder on my saw; the price I was quoted was around $600.00 for a replacement. A piece of DOM tubing, some chrome shafting and a few hours work; this is what I came up with.
So much nicer than babying it through the cut; just set it and let it go.
Also here is a picture of the vise and work stop system I made for it.
I love my Roll-In saw
Last edited by Idahoan; 10-12-2010 at 05:29 PM.
10-12-2010, 02:07 PM #13
10-12-2010, 04:07 PM #14
Roll In Band Saw Help
I don’t do angled cuts with this setup; I have an Ellis that I use for that type of work. I do have the original angle plate and clamp that can also be used.
On the auto shut off, I made a new stop that incorporated the micro switch that you see in the picture. I also put together a latching relay circuit that drops out when the switch is hit. There is also another switch that shuts the saw off when it reaches full travel.
A bypass toggle seen on the start/stop switch box is used if you want to keep the saw running at full travel. This is useful for doing contouring work.
I have cut 4" 4140 with out any problem; the Heinrich fixture locks create quit a bit of pressure and are quick to use. Since I built this setup, I rarely use my horizontal saw.
10-13-2010, 07:28 AM #15
Nice job there Idahoan! Your small "accumulation tank" above the cylinder serves the same purpose as the second floating piston in the cylinder that I used. Your solution is probably simpler and easier to accomplish. Sometimes I get hung up on compact and self contained when straightforward and simple would serve as well. I've read that a cylinder of closed cell foam can be substituted for the piston in the dual piston design, but I've not tried it. A lot of guys have used dual rod cylinders which don't have a blind end, thus avoid the problem altogether.
10-13-2010, 05:17 PM #16
Roll-In Band Saw Help
Thanks for the complements.
When I built the cylinder I calculated the volume and thought I had enough room above the piston for the oil. I must have made a mistake along the way because when I put it all together it would stop about 3" short of full travel. So the little tank was an afterthought; but it does work well.
One other thing I did was to build a check valve into the piston because I couldn't get enough free flow through the flow control valve to easily move the saw frame back to the starting position. I tried a rubber cup seal on the piston which helped but the internal check valve really works well.
10-14-2010, 04:16 AM #17
I use a check built into the piston as well--works great!
10-15-2010, 05:43 AM #18
Knowing nothing about band saws I bought a 1983 vertical roll in band saw. I had no idea how beat it was. I spent hrs cleaning it up. I changed out the two lower guide roller bearings W6230-2RS ($20 off e-bay no deliverycharge) Roll-In wants $43 each!!!!!!! I drilled 1/2" holes on the back of the housing to punch out the old bearings. The lower wheel had no outer rim (chewed/sawn off by the balde). I keep finding things the saw is missing or need replacing. I have a lot of questions. The motor was changed to 3/4" HP, 1725 rpm. I had to buy a 4 step pulley (IT HAD A 3 STEP)$30 at Grainger $43 at Roll-In, a 4L V-Belt 1/2"x33" Grainger $28 at Roll-In (theirs is a AX31, cogged). The saw is missing many things. All I want to do is cut 1/4" brass.
10-15-2010, 05:53 AM #19
I bought 2 new belts. I will try 3M Weatherstipping to glue the bottom tire (new wheel $110!!). How should I install the tires. Heat in hot water? Roll-In says just manually pre stretch the tire. How would I apply the adhesive?
The shaft is too short on the motor to fully receive the 4 step pulley. The tension on the V-belt is just from the weight of the motor. Without engaging the 14" wheels there is tremendous vibration. I gotta put the tires on before I engage. Right now the lower wheel is off. Waiting for instructions. WHY? Am I loving this expensive challenge??