Dead Center Lube

I know that we used to use a Red Lead compound to lubricate the dead centers. Since the EPA has had a hart attack over lead, and I can't find any listing for it anywhere, what is the best replacement for it???

Is there some reason why you don't use a live center?

I think that the standard was white lead, in raw linseed oil or some such, to make a putty.

There is another thread on this in PM. Google is your friend.

powderhorn --

Commercial dead center lubes include Cimcool's "Center Saver", Chicago Manufacturing and Distributing's "CMD Lube #3", and Mullen Circle's EEZ Products Division "Insted-A-Led". I've heard of using commercial anti-seize compound, molybdenum-sulfide-filled EP grease, or a home-brewed mixture of powdered graphite and tallow. The traditional paste of white lead ground in oil isn't sold by paint stores anymore, but many art supply stores still sell what is essentially the same product packed in squeeze-tubes, for artists' use, that I've been using for a number of years now as a press-fit lube. (A note of warning, though: Most of the artists' white oil colors use titanium or zinc oxide as pigment, not white lead (lead carbonate), so if you go that way, choose your tube carefully.

John

The shop had a 14" Cincinatti roll grinder for 5' and 6' long printing press rolls.
This is what we used : Mullen Circle Brand EEZ Insted-A-Led Grinder Center Lube
1-842-676-1880
Thinning (that is if you do not stir from time to time and it gets thick on the bottom) is with
Linseed, Canola, or Vegetable oil.
http://www.mullenoil.com/images/Insted-A-Led-Lit.pdf
http://www.mullenoil.com/
MULLENSTORE.COM
John

[QUOTE ewlsey]
Is there some reason why you don't use a live center?
[/QUOTE]

I can think of two - accuracy (revolving centres have to have some play in the bearings or they don't revolve, even if it's only a few tenths) and access for the tool, as revolving centres are generally a fair bit bulkier (and I've never yet seen a revolving half-centre...)

Just my ape knees woof,
Dave H.

I can think of two - accuracy (revolving centres have to have some play in the bearings or they don't revolve, even if it's only a few tenths) and access for the tool, as revolving centres are generally a fair bit bulkier (and I've never yet seen a revolving half-centre...)

Just my ape knees woof,
Dave H.

Click to expand...

I highly doubt the bearing play issue. A good live center is almost certainly using pre-loaded bearings. Even if it was not pre-loaded, the thrust of the center itself would eliminate this issue.

As for clearance, Google "cnc point live center". These have an extended point that is smaller in diameter allowing clearance.

I can't see any reason to use a dead center except in the head stock when working between centers.

ewlsey said:

I highly doubt the bearing play issue. A good live center is almost certainly using pre-loaded bearings. Even if it was not pre-loaded, the thrust of the center itself would eliminate this issue.

As for clearance, Google "cnc point live center". These have an extended point that is smaller in diameter allowing clearance.

I can't see any reason to use a dead center except in the head stock when working between centers.

Click to expand...

We had two pair of custom built live centers for our heavy super-critical work. One was certified for 12,000 lb and 90 millionths circularity accuracy and the other 5000 lb at 40 millionhs. Good as they were we had to go back to dead centers lubricated with a home brew paste of moly disulfide and sheep tallow.

On my home shop lathe I have a Nikken live center I baby for extra fine work and a better quality import for everu day. . Last time a made circularity samples on my lathe using the Nikken the center end one ran within 40 millionths which is pretty good for most applications.

Back in the day I made a half dozen shaper spindles for a woodworking outfit. They ran 12,000 RPM. The error budget for Grade 7 bearings is small. I arranged things so I could drive the almost finished work with a belt and pulley from a separate motor and took the final cuts from dead centers in the spindle and tailstock. I powered the feed train with an electric drill. The spindles I made from pre-HT 4140 were as accurate as any built by a major machine tool builder. A guy in a home shop can work to that level of accuracy so long as he know the sources of error and compensates for it.

Sometimes the best live center isn't good enough. There is always residual circulatiry and elasticity error that cannot be eliminated. The toolmakers building metrology stuff use dead centers to grind perfect cylinders to parts of millionths. No lie. Look it up. We mere mortals may never run into this level of justified fussiness but we need to understand the necessity. "Good enough" for your use may not be good enough for the makers of the equipment you use on the stuff you make.

"I can't see any reason to use a dead center except in the head stock when working between centers."
Then it is no longer a dead center. If it turns with the workpiece it is a live center.

X2 for "Chicago Manufacturing and Distributing's "CMD Lube #3".

There are some machine tools that do not use a "live" center.

BC Gear hobbers, mine is a #3 and others in this vintage.
Cylindrical grinders frequently turn the work between dead (non rotating) centers.
Just to name a few.

"(and I've never yet seen a revolving half-centre...)" There are a few applications that require a half center, it just can't be done properly with anything else.

Bill

Now that everybody has given you all the reasons not to use a dead center, back to your original question......the answer is Super Lube. Comes in a gray tube, and it will solve the problems. Without going into the reasons I was using a dead center, I can tell you it works....far better than anything else I have tried, and given the project, I threw everything at it. This stuff is amazing.

I am using a half dead center, for cutting small diameter threads. The half dead center gives me more room for starting the cutting tool than the extended point live center.