Silly question - Any of you say "English/Metric" threading versus "Inch/Metric" - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Packard/Merlin aircraft engines were British engines built under license to original prints
    Actually to PACKARD prints. A major challenge to get done and agreed. Rolls had relied on experienced craftsmen to hand fit to Just Work, and they had done it all too well with sorely inadequate drawings.

    Ford, England could not build Merlins to what Rolls had on-paper, either, until Packard fixed that. Not a big surprise Packard had been stunned about not enough precision to make two parts alike. Even English Ford - far less the paragon of such virtues, 1940's - could not fathom how Rolls had made it work at all.

    I take the point on Whitworth being otherwise 'minority' or 'edge case', USA-side of the pond, but there isn't really a lot wrong with them as fasteners, so I'm not fussed to deal with them when the need arises.

    Wouldn't be surprised they are still in widespread use, India and Pakistan, BTW. Nothing much 'English' made is left to just die out there. Patched and patched again, possible or not, then copied.

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    OK, YES, I DO say English vs Metric, about as much as I do Imperial vs Metric.

    I kind of enjoy "sticking it to" the British for saddling us with inches, and then turning Metric and pretending there were never any inches in England. When we went and made Metric legal for trade almost 150 years ago. Yep, ENGLISH it is!

    If anything, Metric should be the "Imperial" unit, on account of old "Boney" establishing it in France, but that dog apparently won't run.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    If anything, Metric should be the "Imperial" unit, on account of old "Boney" establishing it in France, but that dog apparently won't run.
    British & Flemish conspiracy, actually. France took it on only in desperation, rejected it a bit over a dozen years later, didn't come back for another fifteen years.

    You want to blame "Old Boney", pun warning intended, note that his "Home in two weeks. Do not bathe!" Corsican penchant for literally ripe girl cousins left France with no law against incest until 2010. Even then only against minor children. Adult marriage is still permitted.

    If you think that is off-topic, you've probably just not had much exposure to the Metric system's peculiar inbreeding. Tries to make all its children look alike as cultivars of the one, true, basis-unit of all measure, past, present, or future.

    Sort of early L. Ron Hubbard'ish, eh?



    And then.. the enraptured wonder why we merely tolerate it rather than worshipping it?

    Go figure...

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardbird View Post
    No one I know says "English" threads.

    For me it's "inch" or sometimes I'll say "standard" threads.

    Brent
    Pfffft.... That sure isn't "standard" Metric is of course the standard

    Well we went metric in the early 70's so being in the machine tool business we still have loads of imperial sizes and threads all over the place. Mainly forms of the whitworth variety but come across all sorts. Guillotines,folders and so on are mainly of British origin but some from the States. Automotive is of course all over the place dependent on origin and age.

    Being a 80's kid I am of course all of the metric era but being in machine tools you need to know your imperial stuff. It seems that the guys that go or went to design, or draughting courses over the past 40 years totally skipped the imperial section and have no idea when they see a non metric thread.

    It's either Metric/Imperial for us or Standard (which will refer to metric coarse only)/Imperial

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    Never heard "English threads", but I use "Imperial threads" rather than "inch threads" A google search on "Imperial threads" generates quite a few hits on the type of thread we use on this side of the pond.
    To me English conflates with British, which makes me think of BA threads and whitworth.
    I usually say inch but I know Imperial is the correct term.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    ... I don't know of any use of English/French to refer to inch/metric, though it could be justified...
    Larry,

    Dimensions used in the US button making industry are based on French inches, so English/French wouldn't distinguish between inch and metric systems, just between two of the many inch systems.

    It's Imperial/Metric for me.

    George

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    Imperial/Standard has always been the formal way, IME.

    Inch is common but more toward 'informal' nomenclature. I use it conversationally, but in written documents or drawings, it's 'Standard' for me and most every customer I work with. Most drawings I see with dual dimensions will be "METRIC / [STANDARD]"

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    Of course, if I'm to put my #Merica, MAGA hat on, it's


    NO I AIN'T MET RICK. WHO DAT? WTF. SCREWS? SCREW YOU, TOO. OH, BOLTS! YOU MEAN FREEDOM THREADS AND COMMIE THREADS, EH, COMRADE?!

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Econdron View Post
    Closed due to lack of OT in the topic title and general chit chat nature of the topic.
    This is machine tool related (i.e. the Hardinge HLV-EM) and manufacturing related, so I would not have locked this due to no OT in the title no matter who posted it.....and not general chit chat either for stated reasons already.

    Maybe you just saw the word "silly" and did a conclusion jump...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6PTsocket View Post
    ...I know Imperial is the correct term.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    It was once.

    By sheer overwhelming volume the new 'correct term' displacing that - and already challenging even housefly poop as to universality - seems to be:

    "Sent from my <overpriced toy of the month> using Tapatalk"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Maybe you just saw the word "silly" and did a conclusion jump...
    Serendipity, Boss.

    NOW we know what word tickles his personal "Hot Button".

    Just pass it on to the the advertising planners...

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    Depends on mood that day. Some times I say inch/metric and other times I say American/communist.

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    According to Wikipedia it is United States Standard Thread. Fastenal lists these fasteners under Imperial (inch). I think the former may be correct but both of the others are in common usage. Sometimes common usage prevails. There never was a Jaguar XKE; it was the E type. There is no such Spanish word as tamale. Tamal is singular, tamales is plural.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6PTsocket View Post
    There is no such Spanish word as tamale. Tamal is singular, tamales is plural.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapas talk
    There. Fixed that for yah!

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    Volvo cars used inch fasteners up until about 1975 then they switched to metric. That was about the date(1967) that all of Sweden switched overnight from driving on the left to driving on the right side of the road.
    Bill D

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    When it is related to cars I say SAE/metric. Otherwise it is standard/metric. I think the SAE got into my vocabulary from taking drafting in VoTech.

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    I confess, I have always tried to use the terms English and metric. This has nothing to do with politics or good/ill feeling toward that nation or any of the other reasons espoused above. I have a background in science, specifically physics. It is the scientists that have developed and who maintain the systems of measurement that we use. England developed many of the common units in use today for a variety of reasons and probably because they were a strong seafaring nation so, with a lot of trade their units of measurement became widely used. The proper name given to the system of measurement that employs units like inches, feet, miles, pounds, and seconds is the English System. That is the name given to it by those scientists who are/were in charge of developing and maintaining it.

    On the other hand, France was a historic competitor of the English and had their own ideas about measurement. They were heavily involved in the development of the metric system. Meters, grams, and seconds are the primary units in the metric system.

    So, any thread that is based on English units of linear measure, the inch, I refer to as an English thread which is short for "English System thread". And threads that are based on millimeters or any other metric unit of linear measure I refer to as a metric thread. It is that simple.

    Other refinements, like Whitworth, SAE, or variations on standard metric threads are still included in the two general terms; English and metric. That is the way I think about it and whenever I write something I try to use those terms because they are the most basic or most general.

    Whitworth is a good term for a specific thread but it certainly does not apply to all threads that are measured in inches. If I were talking about Whitworth threads, I would say "Whitworth". But, frankly, I have had little experience with them. SAE is the abbreviation for Society of Automotive Engineers. I have never seen an actual SAE defining document (they want real money for them and they don't even provide a good description of what is in them before you buy), but I think they speak more to the form of the screws themselves and less to the thread forms. As far as I know, SAE bolts and screws use the same thread form as is called out in the Unified Standard. Many automotive fasteners are metric and I suspect that the SAE standards include the metric fasteners right along with the English system ones. So saying "SAE" is a poor way to say this is a thread based on English or inch measure. Thus, I avoid it because it also is too general of a term. But the term "English thread" is the best, least confusing descriptive term that I know of for a thread that is based on English or inch measure.

    BTW, I am aware that the French, metric system is the winner on a world wide basis. The scientific part of me salutes that and sees the advantages of that system. And the practical, US based part of me knows that English units are firmly engraved in my mind and soul. I can quickly convert between them with skill. Well, at least with a calculator. I can mentally envision an inch, different fraction of an inch, a mm, a cm, a meter. And I work in both systems as the situation demands. So, please none of the usual banter about which is better or worse. As far as I am concerned they are both working systems of measure and equally useful and troublesome.

    Someone talked about "standard threads". Perhaps I took that remark too seriously, but that, to me, is just too broad. Any thread, English or metric, that someone took the time to write up in a defining document would be a "standard thread". So, if some industry started using a thread that was 10mm in diameter, 23 TPI, and with an included angle of 67 degrees and took the time to write up a standard for that thread, then it would be a "standard thread". The threads on light bulbs are "standard threads". The threads on a water hose are "standard threads". The threads on oil well pipe are "standard threads". And, of course, metric threads ARE "standard threads". There are many, many "standard threads". So that designation means little or nothing. You must know what standard you are talking about.

  22. #38
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    This discussion is more interesting and informative than I thought it would be....not "silly" after all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    This discussion is more interesting and informative than I thought it would be....not "silly" after all
    Perhaps because it was started properly. Legitimate question.
    Had you began 'loaded' as-in:

    "Why the US must convert from Edison Candelabra to Dardelet NOW!"

    ... it could have set the stage for argument, rather than introspection and sharing.

    JM2CW

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    I tend to be a metric / standard guy. Most of my world is UNC/UNF, so thats my "standard". My cars of course are all confused, with a mishmash of metric and standard fasteners. My favorites are the intercontinental translation fasteners. The water pump bolts on my Lincoln are UNC on the engine side and metric on the other. Basically you need two full sets of tools to work on the thing.

    I also tend to use obsolete terms like "kilocycles" for frequency measurements. I learned a lot from reading old books, and those were the terms used when those books were written. my electronics tinkering started on antique radios, and if you want to know how to fix a radio from the 30s, books written for the aspiring 1930s radio repairman are the ideal thing.


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