Slitting saw on BRONZE PLANE MOUTH Need Some Insight on HOW YOU WOULD DO THIS? pics! - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexO View Post
    Bit like machine tools : one often wonders who was the ( German ) moron who designed the crap and why.
    Dunno if I'd blame a German, but "whomever" surely wasn't a Japanese.

    Some of their best work, old Asian cultures in general, the blade HAS NO frame. Hand-held, and pulled. Akin to a spokeshave with no handle, rather.

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    Prof,

    For what its worth.

    If the slot is 1-2inches wide & 1/16 to 3/16 thick & a jury riged broach (?cheap) might be used. Then I would be temped to use a heavy hacksaw blade as my broach.

    Grind the thickness of the blade to the desired size which we hope takes the set off of the teeth & grind the back to give a small taper.

    Make up shims to bare against the back of the blade & pull the blade through the slot. I would not try pushing the broach.

    After you have got everything fixtured a come-a-long or puller made from all thread can do the grunt work.

    Anyone? How much per tooth should a broach take off in bronze?

    Doug

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlaw View Post
    How much per tooth should a broach take off in bronze?

    Doug
    WHICH Bronze? The characteristics span a rather WIDE range.

    That said . IF you have space to START a repeating-stroke broach of the "modified hacksaw blade" clan?

    Ordinary ones made for cutting keyseats could be made to do. My bet is that is a non-starter unless.. one can tolerate a slot with a wide spot at center where it was started for each direction.

    Even so, keeping its cuts all "in plane" won't be as easy as with a bespoke one cut in steps for single-pass use.

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  6. #24
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    Can't find the pre-made photos on old drop box files, but I made a slotting tool for the shaper, and it goes pretty fast in the corners. As you note, the opening still has to be made with a mill or saw.

    What kind of bronze? some is a bit soft for planes.

    What kind of planes? Are you competing with St. James Bay for castings? or are your products different?

    smt

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    WHICH Bronze? The characteristics span a rather WIDE range.

    That said . IF you have space to START a repeating-stroke broach of the "modified hacksaw blade" clan?

    Ordinary ones made for cutting keyseats could be made to do. My bet is that is a non-starter unless.. one can tolerate a slot with a wide spot at center where it was started for each direction.

    Even so, keeping its cuts all "in plane" won't be as easy as with a bespoke one cut in steps for single-pass use.
    He'll need a bespoke one to get a decent result though anything might work for usable. One would start with a narrow one and do the blade holding cuts left and right then pull through and finish it all in one go. A ( horrible ) solution which I used ages ago was a fretsaw and appropriate fixturing. I would ( now...) get a piece of 3/32 tool steel, cut fine(eish) teeth in it by hand and hook it to a fretsaw.

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    Lie neilson broach theirs, it's shown on a how it's made I saw a month ago, think it was a push broach from memory
    Mark

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    If it was a few plane castings, I'd drill to remove the bulk and make some filing guides, then hand file it.

    If it was a couple dozen I'd cut them on a shaper evolving into more complex and productive workholding and shaper tooling depending on quantity.

    It might be simple to suggest "broach it" but the plane mouth penetrates at an angle and the section to penetrate is thin. The broach will have to be fine pitched and accurately guided and the work rigidly held if the plane mouth (and the broach) is not to be jeopardized. If you think the quantity justifies broaching the plane mouth, consider in microscopic detail the resources necessary, the cost of tooling, make Vs buy etc. IOW look before you leap.

    Personally, in any quantity up to a hundred or so, I'd rough end mill at the correct angle leaving a little stock. Then, using DIY file guides, clean out the milled radii to sharp corners and fine finish the throat. A guided file in the hands of a guy who pays attention is a surprisingly efficient and accurate tool providing the the bulk of the stock to be removed is minimized via pre-machining.

    The file guides I have in mind are nothing more than machined ramps clamped to the work. You protect the guides from the file teeth with an intervening slip of paper which rides with the file acting as a dry bearing.. Do it right and you can hold fractional thousandths dimension and flatness and arc minutes of angle in small features.

    Good way to find out if you have the right stuff to be a real machinist too.

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  12. #28
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    A fileing machine might do it?, if the table won't get there a taper block on the table to get the angle
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post

    It might be simple to suggest "broach it" but the plane mouth penetrates at an angle and the section to penetrate is thin. The broach will have to be fine pitched and accurately guided and the work rigidly held if the plane mouth (and the broach) is not to be jeopardized. If you think the quantity justifies broaching the plane mouth, consider in microscopic detail the resources necessary, the cost of tooling, make Vs buy etc. IOW look before you leap.
    This is ( as usually ) excellent advice from you. I've seen them being broached but that was done in a well tolled plant and the broach as far as I remember was pretty involved. It would help if the OP would give some more detail : in the end, ALL what's needed is a flat region behind the blade where it exits the mouth and some system to capture the blade. The two side cutouts which hold the blade inside the plane's body are not needed - they are an unnecessary complication. Actually, a downright irritation. It is irrelevant if the mouth of the plane is wider than the blade. Small plane irons are sharpened convex and with little clearance or they don't work well. I think the OP can design the plane so that all he needs is an end mill and a bit of filing.

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    Found pix of the shaper tool i made & use for same operation in ductile iron.

    I mill the throat form the inside, and then use this tool to clean out the corners and do the final shaping.
    (click to blow them up)

    img3324watkins-glen-copy.jpg

    smt_mshapertooling1.jpg



    Mine all have adjustable throats, though.



    smt

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    Those are very very nice looking planes, have you any details?, never thought about making my own, till now.
    Mark

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    As I have held ( probably one of those pictured ) a Loopy I can attest that they are at the very top of the food chain in wood planes. Both in innovations and execution. You would have to buy time on Big Blue to find some areas that could be advanced...
    Joe

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    I haven't started a new batch in 10 or 12 years, though I finished some from the last batch maybe 5-7 years ago.
    My entire production except for 2 others, is in this photo. (including the 3 finished in the background photo)



    stephen thomas loopy - Google Search

    smt

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    If you want absulute "perfection " every time, A simple holding fixture and any old near obsolete and claped out wire edm would do it. Not only would the corners be Visually sharp,you could even make a decorative undercut loop. This is assuming many parts,not 5 or 6. Edwin Dirnbeck


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