Small Knee Mill Questions

I've read a few threads started by hobbyists and I'm aware that most of you have great disdain for import mills...and hobbyists. So my apologies in advance.

I have metal working experience but it was as a welder/fitter many years ago. I've always had an interest in machining and finally decided to do something about it. My intent was to get a mini mill/drill, but reading here has me reluctant to do so. I'd like to get a mill for the garage to play around with. It seems that a small knee would be best. I'm reluctant to buy a used US made mill as I'm not sure I have enough knowledge to repair it, which I assume it will probably need. Or enough back. I've had back surgery and can't safely lift more than about 20 lb. So is an import knee mill good enough for just jacking around in my garage? Such as this: Shop Tools and Machinery at Grizzly.com

Do yourself a favor and look for a decent Clausing 8500-series or a Rockwell knee mill. They weigh in at 700-1000 lbs and are pretty decent machines to learn on.

So you read some other post's, saw a "Disadain" for hobbiest ?

More important, you didn't read the rules about the gizzly line of machines.
www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machinery-discussion-guidelines-137724/

The "Disdain" is from people who don't think the rules apply to them.

Why should anyone bother typing a response, with your reading comprehension ?

You'll be disappointed with the "quality import" crap, nice pictures and shiny paint fade quickly when you try to make good parts.

My Clausing 8520 is perfect for the basement/smallish stuff and very accurate. Got a buddy that has a Rockwell in the same size that he really likes.

ptsmith said:

I'm reluctant to buy a used US made mill as I'm not sure I have enough knowledge to repair it, which I assume it will probably need.

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If you were to purchase a good running machine, why do you think it would need repairs? If you are working off the new=better philosophy, that would only apply to a new quality machine, not an imported toy machine. With proper care, an older quality machine will outlast the import.

I will say from experience that finding a smaller US made mill is difficult, they seem to be rare and in high demand in Tx. Price wise you can probably get a decent BP or clone BP for the same or less $ than a smaller mill. As for moving it if your not setup to do it, just pay a rigger.

Every day I make parts and repair parts for high end machinery on old worn machines(notice I left out the out).
What you need is to befriend an experienced machinist,may be check out a trade school for a reference.A good machinist can save you a lot of grief in a short time by checking out any machine you might be considering buying.Offer to pay him for his time,it will be well worth it.
Might even be some forum members near you that can help.I know that if someone near me needed a little time I wouldn't mind helping.

Fortunately when I started needing to do my own machining in the '60's a good friend happened to be an excellent machinist working at the local shipyards.With a little advise and some books and a few machines I was on my way.

dalmatiangirl61 said:

If you were to purchase a good running machine, why do you think it would need repairs?.....

Click to expand...

Because of Bubba.

Almost every used machine I have ever bought has had some ham-fisted repair done, or some part that is not there, but should be. And these are machines that have been in use, regarded as good, and were not cannibalized for parts, etc.

It's a known issue and I am always surprised when I find a machine that is good and works as-is with no surprises. It HAS happened.

Even if there is nothing missing, I look into gearboxes etc and often find surprises, places that are packed full of swarf that you have no clue how it could ever get in there, and the like.

Of course you are 100% correct, the lower cost imports are made NEW to about the same level of quality as you would find with an old very worn machine of a good maker. With the exception that the old machine can generally be returned to good performance, and the low cost imports need to be re-manufactured, or re-designed, to reach the same level.

Of course, you are also right, in that if the machine is usable as-is, often ignorance is bliss... When you do not look closely, so long as the levers do what they should, wear is not too much, and so forth, it is a question why a person should go looking for trouble.

it's probably a character defect in me that I'll buy a machine that has problems I know I can fix without too much trouble, if I can pay enough less for it.

digger doug said:

So you read some other post's, saw a "Disadain" for hobbiest ?

More important, you didn't read the rules about the gizzly line of machines.
www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machinery-discussion-guidelines-137724/

The "Disdain" is from people who don't think the rules apply to them.

Why should anyone bother typing a response, with your reading comprehension ?

Click to expand...

Are you sure the following is what you meant?
“The "Disdain" is from people who don't think the rules apply to them“

On that back thing, I also have back problems. I recently moved my mill from my trailer shop into my garage. A fork lift was absolutely necessary to bring it down from the 3' high floor level of the trailer to the driveway. But the fork lift was too tall to get into the garage door so it just set the mill down there. I was able to walk it from there to it's final position without straining my back. The Grizzly mill that you talked about is somewhat lighter than my mill so it would be even easier to move about on a level surface. But if you need to put it in a basement, that may be another thing. You did say "garage", didn't you.

A used machine can be anywhere from near perfect condition to a total pile of junk. I purchased a used lathe that was in the middle of the good range and it worked as soon as I had it assembled. Lathes, at least older ones, can be easily broken down into manageable parts: bed, headstock, tailstock, carriage, motor, etc. I would not hesitate to buy a used machine if I could inspect it, preferably in operation, before paying. Some machine repairs are simple and do not require a lot of advanced knowledge while others can be somewhat challenging, like making replacement gears.

As for Grizzly products, I have used some of them. They are one of the better importers but import is import and basically you get what you pay for. For instance, a Grizzly mill that is perhaps around 35% bigger than the one you show, that I worked with worked OK, but after some use I discovered that the table was not flat. It was not that old so the table was probably that way when it was brand new. And THIS is the kind of thing that can be difficult to fix. I would expect that a US made mill that probably cost 5 to 10 times what that Grizzly one did, would have a flat table, even after many years of use. My point is that "new" is not any guarantee that there are no problems. A new, import mill can easily have problems that are just as difficult to fix as a used US one. Now, depending on the level of precision that you want/need, that Grizzly mill could produce perfectly acceptable parts. You just had to be aware of the table problem and be able to take some precautions to work with it. And likewise for a used, US made mill that may have a problem or two.

The only real way to be sure that you will not have any problems is to buy a top end machine and completely inspect it when it arrives. If it has any issues, you will need to make a warranty claim before the warranty period runs out. And be prepared to be persistent about it. But this will cost 5 to 10 times what that Grizzly mill will.

I have pondered these things before several machine purchases and I can tell you that it does not get any easier. I will say this; the precision in the shop is in the hands and mind of the machinist far more than in the machines.

i have both a mini mill and a small bridgeport (im a knife maker)at the time i need a drill press and told myself least the mini could sorta do dual duty. and it did and i broke it then upgraded the drive to belt drive. after a whiel i found a high speed head 32 inch table BP. did bubba have his hands all over it ? yep is it still miles ahead of the HF mini you bet it is. i use my mini as a drill press mostly and when i want to use a fly cutter for flatting wood scales for handles. any thing that looks like reall milling gets done on the bridgeport. even i know the BP is a small mill but it can be made to do lots of things. if i had a real drill press i woudl have got rid of my mini mill. my small used BP cost me 1600 and i think g it was $ well spent even if it could use a tune up its still much better then the HF crap

I have no idea of the quality of that particular machine that Grizzly imports, but you certainly can do capable work on the ones made in Taiwan some years ago. They are not bad machines at all, design-wise.

This thread will likely get locked soon because that machine really doesn't fit inside the guidelines, but in your position I'd go & take a close look at it in person, check out the sliding fits, take a DTI or 2 with you, see what it shapes up like. You could do a lot worse (any of the drill-mills for example).

PDW

Do yourself a favor and stay the heck away from china export machines,
my good ol uk iron is over 50 yrs old,
no slop or nothing, it was maintained from new.

It has four times the iron any equivalent size chinese mill and will probably outlast and out run the new ones from china.

Like posted before, same money you pay for new import, you'll find a decent old real mill.
Are you in a hurry to find the machine?
All good things and so on...

Marko

Hi Marko, what UK old iron do you own ?

Regards Tyrone.