Machinist Apprenticeship Interview coming soon

I have just started in a large company that has a union a few months back. Now I got a phone call from another union shop offering a machinist apprenticeship 8000 hour program. The work is really big though, bores are like 8 feet in diameter and some of the work looked to be 30 feet tall. I'm sure journeyman papers are good to have but I already do have some basic papers through NIMS, the National Institute for Metalworking Skills. Where I am working now, the pay isn't the greatest and who knows if it will go up after the contract next year. Right now where I'm working, it is air conditioned, and the work atmosphere is pretty laid back. If I jump jobs at this time, I'm not sure if I would be allowed to come back if the other job with the apprenticeship doesn't pan out. I won't take much of a paycut to go to the apprenticeship job, and it does have a higher payscale, as of right now anyway. Are journeyman papers a thing of the past? Now it seems like everyone wants a college degree in something.

Journeyman papers are the trades equivalent of college and university degrees. Without them, people only have your word to rely on for job skills, and that's not good enough for most folks.

I've heard too many stories of people getting paid less than the guy beside them because they didn't have papers and the other guy did.

College degrees are useless in the trades world. You don't need a BA to run a lathe.

If you do jump jobs, let them know you are doing it ONLY for the apprenticeship. If things change in the future, hopefully they will be understanding.

You've got a good start with the NIMS, but you need to follow through.

Good Luck.

If you can do it with no loss of pay, I say do it. With the decline in skilled trades jobs you will need every edge you can get in the future.

Deffinently get your journeyman paper's. I got mine in 2005 through may past employer. I stayed at that job until 2007. Got hired by Air Products and Chemicals and I beat out everyone that applied for the job just because I was a state certified journeyman. Your apprenticeship should have 4000hrs of schooling at an accretided college so you most likely have some sort of diploma or certificate through them as well as your state certification. Make the change it will be worth it in the long run.

Sean the Dog said:

College degrees are useless in the trades world. You don't need a BA to run a lathe.

Click to expand...

BS is useful, though.

Part of being an apprentice is to learn many aspects of the trade, or its supposed to be that anyway, hopefully they offer a decent variety. It's important that you consider if there's a certain type of work in this trade that interests you most. Large work is good learning and some people love it, but if you want to make watch parts you'll eventually have to switch. Some like repair work, while some(like me) hate it. Then there's the guys who don't really care so long as the pay cheque clears.

Check if its an apprenticeship program that is internal to that company/union, some places still do that and then its pretty much worth f-all paper wise out in the real world(not that the other one does a whole lot as far as I'm concerned). Now if its an apprenticeship that allows you to switch to a few different shops over time and keep rolling those hours until you have the 8000 and do your final test, good. You can also usually just do a couple thousand more hours and challenge the test anyway and get the same card.

The most important part if you want to be a good versatile machinist is that you get into the places that have something you can learn from. Any employer worth working for will be more interested in your skills and will pay accordingly for the work you do, papers or no papers, with that said... there ain't many of them, and the places that pick based on a little card with no regard for skills are generally rat holes with too much management and too little sense anyway. Last thing, learn to sell your skills, that's what gets the $$, hell that's how the guy with no skill and a load of BS gets the $$, imagine a guy with skills selling himself properly

I've met, worked with, and interviewed a number of journeyman. And its absolutely disgusting what qualifies as a journeyman now.

When I was at my local college getting training, I can't count the number of apprentices that were passed for just the sake of passing them. I've also heard stories about guys who have done nothing but run a drill press for 15 years and they were just given a ticket.

Now don't get me wrong there are terrific journeyman machinists out there. But after my experiences with them, that title doesn't hold the same amount of respect that it used to.

I would just stay with the laid back shop and try to do some machine shop classes at night at a community college.

Iv machined huge parts and it boring as hell, you might not do anything for hours but wait for a tool to dull or push a red button when a tool fails. A 12 hour day feels like a week. Plus if you get motion sickness big lathe work is hell, you will go home at night and close your eyes and see everything spinning slow.

Large work is a cakewalk... Just never ever scrap a part

I am guessing this is a job for Bucyrus, P&H or something like that?

On large work there is alot of ass time, but theres definetally alot to be done. Plan your next job, figure out how to set it up, get tooling ready, get a print, or sketch whatever.

Of course being union your going to make great money to do very little so most of what I just said will probably be handled by someone else or thats the only thing you will do is the Shit jobs as an apprentice and get little actual running experience.

8' bores psssh I thought you said big.

Find out how they do their crane useage... Operating a crane is a minimum besides machine operation if you goto any job shop that does larger work. If you can make err go, roll parts over, and load them to the machine/floor plate/etc your pretty much fucked if you ever decide to leave the union job.

Thank you all for the input, I am going in here in a few days to find out exactly what machines I will be put on. Hopefully then that will help me make up my mind. I have been running a manual engine lathe now since 2007on and off between layoffs. It seems like you learn a lot just from the manual engine lathe.

Creed,

If you are not going to lose a LOT of money, go for it. Don't be scared of the "big" machines. 8 foot ain't BIG.

You DO get a lot of ass time on big machines. You also get a lot of set up time to get the piece ready to cut. I've spent a day to a week getting a piece, maybe 25 ton, 14 foot D, 8 foot high, properly located, braced with drivers, and clamped down. Big heavy pieces WILL move if you don't set them up right, and a tool digs in. 75 HP motor, geared to turn a say 20 foot table less than 1 RPM has lots of torque. Enough to break 1 1/2 inch OK tools, forged, and 2 inch all forged steel tools.

I ran only, as a position, VBMs, from 56" to 20 foot. As far as I was concerned, the bigger the better. People are intimidated by big machines. I loved them. The bigger the machine, the higher the pay class, in my UNION shop. I'd like to have gotten onto the 40 foot Niles.

The only reason I got my job at US Steel when I got laid off from Elliot Corp when Desert Storm broke out was that the UC office was asking Journeymen to apply. I gave them my card and was hired within 2 weeks, counting "notice" to Elliot. Retired from there. It will definitely be of help, if it an ACTUAL nationally recognized apprenticeship. In house isn't quite the same. I would NOT say that the Apprenticeships in US Steel were very good. I worked with lots of guys who weren't all that versed on Mechanics. Same people who LEFT US Steel to man the VW plant that lasted 10 years, here, as long as the Tax Holiday was planned to last.. They came back to US Steel.

Westinghouse Apprenticeship was designed to grow in house Managers to replace retirees. I had good ones and bad ones as my apprentices. Some wanted to learn, crank the handles, I let them, but I watched what they did. Others sat on their asses, "I don't gotta learn that shit, my uncle is a boss, here, I'll be a boss when I graduate.

Ours was equivalent to a 4 year degree.

Go for it.

Cheers,

George