Thread: Starrett gauge pins go to ...

China. Is nothing sacred? Just noticed a Starrett gauge pin set on sale recently and on further investigation (read: suspicion) I noticed that they do admit they are made in China, to Starrett's high standards of excellence, of course.

Do I want a Vermont US set for $60 or a Starrett Chinese set for $50 ? Do I want a Prestige set for $47 or a Starrett set for $200 ?

Note to Starrett ... please don't keep sticking the venerable Starrett name on plastic boxes from China. Find a way to produce them here and survive.

And guess what, we will pay more for US made.

This WILL come back to bite us in the ass when no more precision products are made here. No intent to turn this into a political rant but look at the loons speaking on American media this week from the UN, Harlem and elsewhere. We need to become self sufficient again to prepare for our future.

If Don moves this to the manufacturing forum, we'll have his Viagra study moved to the Rx forum at HSM

Too late. Snap on makes tool in China too.

And guess what, we will pay more for US made.

So far the collective "you" have proved otherwize.
What makes you think "you" will start now or anytime soon?

Wait until they start selling automobiles here. Our auto industry seems to be headed the same way the British auto industry went. I saw something about Ford and General Motors talking about a merger. Too bad so many people went to imports.

Jim

What we need is an imeadiate 20% Tarrif on all imports from China.

You scream that will raise the cost of my Nike sneakers? Yeah, so what, if you buy the high priced ones, dig a little deeper in your pocket. Maybe a shoe factory will open in America again.

And you say my jeans will cost more?... again so what, if you buy sensible jeans for anything under$50 it's a ten spot more...but maybe levi's will employ Americans again.

But there's one big drawback. The Chineee will not buy the US debt as much as they do now, so interest rates will go up, and the Dubya dont want that, does he..Sooooo keep on keepin on and enjoy prosperous America as long as the party lasts, cuz when the parties over, and it will end, we just dont have it scheduled yet, it will be one hellofa mess to clean up.

Just noticed a Starrett gauge pin set on sale recently and on further investigation (read: suspicion) I noticed that they do admit they are made in China, to Starrett's high standards of excellence, of course.

Well, at least Starrett is admitting it now. In the long "Starrett ain't what it used to be" thread, many of us conjectured that Starrett was making a lot of their hand tools in the Starrett factory in Shanghai, China, which would explain why the quality on the new Starrett hand tools, just ain't what it used to be

I've been buying all my Starrett hand tools as NOS on Ebay. That way I'm assured of getting a US Made, high-quality tool. I'm also very fond of the gorgeous case-hardening on the old-school Starrett tools [img]smile.gif[/img]

what does "Dubya" have to do do with that.... like ANY Politician would do that. Yeah right!

What we need is an imeadiate 20% Tarrif on all imports from China.

That would put most of the remaining American manufacturers out of business. They already depend on Chinese manufactured products for much of their product lines. They cannot somehow magically replace that production with american made products as they don't exist and they don't have the capability to make them.

Like I said....

Sooooo keep on keepin on and enjoy prosperous America as long as the party lasts, cuz when the parties over, and it will end, we just dont have it scheduled yet, it will be one hellofa mess to clean up.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What we need is an imeadiate 20% Tarrif on all imports from China.

That would put most of the remaining American manufacturers out of business.</font>[/QUOTE]It's not just the American manufacturers and retailers -- most of the industrialized nations are exploiting Chinese slave labor to remain competitive in the global economy.

Slaves don't buy new cars.

Slaves don't buy new cars.

The Chinese peasants who work in abject squalor in the "Free Trade Zones" are not buying cars, the Chinese middle class is.

The peasants are not allowed to permanently settle in any of the major cities -- they're given 2-year work passes, after which they must return home. Not surprisingly, the typical Chinese factory worker can only stand those working conditions for about two years...

The Chinese middle class is about 5 - 10% of the Chinese population -- mostly friends and family of the Communist Chinese government, according to the Frontline and Economist articles.

There seems to be something counter-intuitive about buying American made products that are 400% more than a competitive import. I think lots of us would actually do without and never buy some of these little knicknack tools at US prices. I don't require super precision gauge pins, so a cheap set is great for shop use. Heck, even the cheap sets are better stuff than I make

Quit buying stuff at auctions. Close down Ebay. Force everything to be purchased new. It makes about as much sense.

Profit is usually considered in terms of percentage markup. Why should I support a 100% markup on goods that already have a cost price that is maybe 100% higher? For example, Starrett might make $100 on their guage pins, the Chinese might make $25 on their $50 set.

We don't make money cutting one another's hair. If the US closed its borders to all foreign imports, causing all purchases to necessarily become "US supporting", do you think that would make the economy of the US roar ahead, or drop like a stone in a puddle?

We have to provide a good value, compared to new. Otherwise, quit producing the low priced items. Offer service at a premium, let the cut-throat Chinese competition produce the commodity tooling.

Heck, I've got customers who are not happy if I produce a new part at 50% of new, they'll go and buy from the dealer. That is local customers dealing with a local business. I think they are nuts, but the dealer and the manufacturer probably think that is okay. Perspectives can be irreconcilable, so we really have to let market forces play out. There is no other democratic method to do business.

A parallel scenario occurs in the agriculture industry. The world is capable of producing vast quantities of food, and the knowledge is there for how to do it. Farmers like to think of themselves as essential, too. But they all cannot produce the same things without creating a glut, and low prices.

Technology itself has fulfilled its exact promise: more goods (and services) for all, within a price range that more can afford. This is not only easier for Americans to do now, but anyone who can scrape together some funds to buy some machinery can participate in the manufacturing race.

I buy US when I really need to make use of the expertise that is required to make the goods properly. Quite often, there will be a spread of 200% to 400% in pricing even betwixt US manufacturers. Some have the knowledge, and some don't. Should the highest priced guy get the job? Why? He might make a bigger contribution tax wise to the economy. So? Not my problem. My pockets are only so deep.

If the goods are in common demand and become almost commodity-like and attract foreign competition, then move on to making something else. Do not expect anyone to buy from you because you are a nice guy, or live within certain political boundaries.

The peasants are not allowed to permanently settle in any of the major cities -- they're given 2-year work passes, after which they must return home. Not surprisingly, the typical Chinese factory worker can only stand those working conditions for about two years...

Do you have evidence for that?

Stuff like this makes we want to cry. I love this trade and the deep connection to the craftsmen of yore. And the machine tool makers of yore. And the precision tool makers of yore. I live in New England which at one time was the meca of precision tools. And Starrett was the capital city of this meca at one time. Its hard to see such a great company like many others lay done there arms and succumb to the china invasion.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The peasants are not allowed to permanently settle in any of the major cities -- they're given 2-year work passes, after which they must return home. Not surprisingly, the typical Chinese factory worker can only stand those working conditions for about two years...

Do you have evidence for that?</font>[/QUOTE]No Evan, I just Googled it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Seriously, it's described in great detail in the 2-hour Frontline documentary "China In the Red." This is a fantastic documentary that shows the very precarious balance between the working poor, the middle class, and the Communist Government.

The work passes and peasant anti-migration laws have also been described in several Economist and New York Times articles describing the growing labor unrest in China, the dramatically increasing frequency of labor disputes, and the brutal way that the Chinese government deals with worker disputes.

In these articles/documentaries they also describe how the majority of the factory workers are young women, since the factory managers/owners (the "middle class") have a lot more control over them.

For another shocking/depressing view inside the Chinese Free Trade Zone factories, the documentary "Mardi Gras: Made in China" by David Redmon, traces the Mardi Gras beads manufactured by laborers in Chinese factories to the streets of pre-Katrina New Orleans. This is shown on Sundance/IFC from time to time. The factory is populated almost entirely by teenage girls, working on hot polystyrene presses with no safety guards, and no venilation.

In both documentaries, which were filmed on-site, the young women are kept in work compounds surrounding the factories that look a lot like a penal facility. They're only allowed to leave the facility once every 14 days, and they're not allowed to fraternize with any of the men living in the facility. They get no holidays, except for being able to return home briefly for the Chinese New Year.

Too bad so many people went to imports.

The reason people went to Japanese autos, is because American automakers have been building S*!TTY quality cars for the past 30 years.
Japanese = Reliability.
US = Fat, Lazy U.A.W. crap.

It seems to me that the information generally available in the US regarding China and what is happening there is highly skewed. This doesn't suprise me as that is also what I see when I compare other news reporting from US sources to those outside the US.

Two friends of mine just returned from China a few months ago having just spent a couple of months traveling around the country freely. They hired local cab drivers as guides or even just somebody they met in a cafe. While China is still struggling to bring a large portion of it's population out of poverty the majority are well above the poverty line.

My friends made a point of going out of the way of the usual tourist attractions because they wanted to find out what was really happening in the country. They visited several factories on a whim which turned out to be easy to do as the chinese are happy to show off the advances thay have made in recent years.

On the whole the average chinese worker is not well paid but is most certainly not working as slave labour. They not only receive enough pay to live reasonably well but they have enough left over to send home to help support their parents or elders of the family. Mud huts in the outlying villages are being replaced by simple but respectable concrete block homes as the "wealthy" young workers in the industrial zones send money back home.

Very few people in China are starving anymore and even the peasants in the far outback regions are usually reasonably well fed and dressed.

If a company makes a product that you like and need, and it is made in USA, TELL THEM that is influencing your decision and show your support by being a customer.

StillMadeinUSA.com

(Come on, you KNEW this thread would flush me out of lurk mode!! )

Pazuzu71 said

The reason people went to Japanese autos, is because American automakers have been building S*!TTY quality cars for the past 30 years.
Japanese = Reliability.
US = Fat, Lazy U.A.W. crap.

And the auto industry (whether in cahoots with big oil or just a dumb dupe) got stabbed in the back when the oil industry jacked prices artificially in the late 70's. They were dumb enough to do it again in the recent oil scam. Funny thing, all those oil hungry countries we heard about must be on a diet with the oil prices dropping like a rock. Either that or that was all a cover story and now the oil industry is dropping them back so the U.S. (as in the past) will fail to do anything about alternative energy solution until they are ready to boost prices another increment down the road...

Meanwhile, Japanese manufacturers have been leadingi fuel economy and quality with a better U.S. price to boot. Can anyone spell MYOPIA????