Starting machinist program at local college, some questions on tool brands

Hello all, so I currently work at Harbor Freight, but I am planning this September on attending a local community college's precision machinist certificate program (it is one year) in order to move on and become a machinist.

They gave us a list of tools to purchase, such as a digital caliper, digital micrometer, dial gauge, etc...now I noticed that the decent (or at least what are supposed to be decent) micrometers are like $130, but Harbor Freight sells a digital micrometer for roughly 1/10th of that price. So it is really cheap.

Being skeptical, I have been searching the Internet for reviews but most of the reviews for the Harbor Freight digital micrometers seem to be pretty good, the main gripe being that they don't really turn off but rather "off" just turns off the display, and thus the battery life is very low. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Harbor Freight cheapies and has a similar experience?

On the one hand, I am aware of the whole, "Buy quality tools, they will last a lifetime and won't break on you or be inaccurate, etc..." on the other hand though, I am a poor machinist student right now and I also get 25% off any Harbor Freight products I buy since I work there.

All advice appreciated

If you have the time (before classes start I mean) shop around Ebay. There are a couple deals on Mitutoyo digital calipers right now. Also, if you buy the absolute cheap harbour freight, do you have a way to check them? As you have a shopping list I assume the class will have some hands on stuff so hopefully they will have a good set of shop tools you can use to check your stuff. At the very least, I hope they have good brand name stuff so you guys can see first hand the difference in quality measuring tools vs cheapies. Best of luck to you!

I have been searching the Internet for reviews but most of the reviews for the Harbor Freight digital micrometers seem to be pretty good, the main gripe being that they don't really turn off but rather "off" just turns off the display, and thus the battery life is very low.

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If you're serious about this career path, teach yourself how to read a set if micrometers properly, using the vernier/thimble method. You should never need a battery for a set of mics.

The Ebay suggestion is probably a good one also.

He stated digital was a course requirement.

kenh said:

He stated digital was a course requirement.

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Yeah, that's a real shame. Combination of pure laziness and this idea of "keeping up with the times". Do yourself a favor if you are serious about being in the trade. Practice using all kinds of old school measuring equipment, including vernier scales. If you plan on working in a production environment, this maybe does not apply, but if you plan on working in a job shop, using all different kinds of equipment on various types of work, you will certainly NOT be using all digital stuff!

kenh said:

He stated digital was a course requirement.

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I'll bet if he showed up already knowing how to read micrometers, the instructor's view of him would change, for the better.

Digital as a requirement is pretty damn stupid.

I have had prospective employers remark how impressed they are that we still teach use of verniers.

I suspect lazy instructor. There are way to many verniers still roaming the wild not to know how to read them. Inch and metric. It not like you are asking a med student to learn blood letting.

Import tools have there place. But if this is going to be your only set I second the recommendations that you look at some good used ones. Maybe put a WTB in the tooling for sale forum.

My 2cents, for what its worth..

Buy the cheap digitals.. There is no reason to blow a ton of cash on a nice tool now.. The nice
tool you buy now, may not be the one you really wanted once you get into the trade... You may decide that
digitals suck and you want a nice set of manual Mits or B&S.

Batteries, go on e-bay and buy a pile of them.. I'm always using the cheap little currency microscopes, they
are about $3 each and come with batteries.. So one Saturday, I'm looking at rocks and my batteries die... I go
down to the hardware store... $7.50 for 3 F'n batteries... Whatever.. I've got rocks to look at... Went on
e-bay and for $7.50 I got 100 batteries with free shipping.. Granted not the same quality as a Duracell, but
they've lasted over 6 months of staring at rocks...

Like others have said, while you are messing around on E-bay get a manual/thimble/vernier mic... And
learn how to use it.. You WILL NEED to know how to use it.. If you showed up at my shop and said you
went through a year of machinist training, I'd talk to you, but if I found out you couldn't read a micrometer
I'd figure you were lying about the training, I'd laugh in your face and I'd show you the door.

Save your money until you know what you want, and what is going to be most useful for you. There are all kinds
of fun toys to buy in this game, some useful, some not useful.. Some of it is just cool/fun to have...

Good luck.. Always a good sign when you are smart enough to ask..

I agree that if the coarse requires it to just get the cheapest digitals around. Having said that I find their usefulness wanting, some times a digital just won't fit in to get a measurement. I have a lot of vernier calipers and a couple of digitals and 1 set of dial type, I like them all but for different reasons. Now in regard to micrometers; I have no use for anything but the old stand by verniers, I don't even like holding a digital mic in my hand let alone using one and I'll never have it not work due to a dead battery.
Dan.

1st set should never be your forever set - it's the set you're willing to learn and make mistakes with. Then they become the set you let get greasy, the ones you scribe a line with, and the ones, when you're ready - you toss across the floor or give to the new guy. So - my recommendations...
HF digital caliper or one from Anytime Tools on Ebay (will pass calibration)
.0001 readable 0-1" micrometer plenty for under $15 and learn to math to metric.
HF orange rubber hammer
.0005 dial test indicator w/stem or clamp + mag base (can be got under $60) - these will be hit or miss, but you'll likely break it before it gets too bad
Starrett edge finder, sorry you can't cheap out on this, chinese ones are absolute crap
Get yourself a mirror on a stick and a couple medical clamps (whatever HF carries) and a magnifying glass ... That should be a good start.

In my first real production shop job I was able to bypass the simple minded testing at the employment commission, skip the mandatory 3 months on a broom, and go straight to running a lathe. All because I could read vernier scales. I did have about a year's experiance running a rough-out lathe in job shop. Of course this was in 1980 and they were hiring 100 people a day.

Is this guy asking a serious question or is this a troll/joke?

Hardened said:

1st set should never be your forever set...

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It just seems wrong to encourage someone to buy cheap crap that will soon need replacing.

But, in this case, with the OP being an employee of Cheap Crap Inc, I would make an exception. Get the HF unit. Leave the batteries out when not in use.

I have at least half a dozen of the "disposable" HF or similar brand digital calipers in the shop. They're good enough and repeatable enough to use for "Non Precision" parts. They're also inexpensive enough that you won't loose sleep over getting one trashed by falling in a coolant tank, off a machine, or walking out the door. They do use more batteries (one every 2 years or so) but it only takes a minute to change them, and they only cost a couple bucks.

Having said that I don't trust them for more accurate measurements down to .0001. When close tolerances are necessary I go to the Mitutoyo, B&S, or Interapid measuring tools. These tools are kept in the tool room out of harms way until needed. As I mentioned in another thread it's not nearly as disheartening to trash a tool that costs less than lunch at a greasy spoon as it is to trash an expensive one.

You'll learn all the basics as how to handle and read the measuring tools regardless of the price. Once you're confident you'll stick with the profession you'll feel more comfortable buying higher quality tools. Even then I wouldn't leave them lying around. There's always the chance they'll end up in someone else's pocket or damaged when falling on the floor.

I must say I don't have any digital micrometers. Of the couple dozen or so that I have they're all vernier, and most go to .0001". Several have the ratchet thimble, but to me it's no big deal, It's just the style I learned to read so I'm comfortable using them. Most are Starrett, B&S & Mitutoyo. I do have one set of Blackhawk 1" - 4" micrometers I take into the field. I'm sure they're lower quality then the others, but they seem to be able to take accurate and repeatable measurements. I don't know when or where I got them. I've had them for many years and don't even know if they're still made.

As a side note our local community college has switched from Mitutoyo, B&S and other expensive measuring tools to those from HF and Shars over the last few years. It seems at the end of each semester they needed to replace so much "lost" tooling that they could no longer afford to equip each shop with the more expensive stuff.

Honestly, good quality used stuff is so cheap on ebay, I can see no reason to buy crap, just because it's new. If you are patient and keep looking, you could pick up a 0-1 mic, 6" dial caliper, and a couple of indicators for probably around $100+, all name brand in decent condition, all of which will probably still be in decent shape long after the HF pos crapped out. I agree with what's been said about your first tools can later be replaced with nicer stuff and be used in rougher environments, but that doesn't mean that your first tools need to be crap, just that you will later have better stuff tucked away when great accuracy is needed. I'm not saying go buy brand new Starrett everything, but if I'm gonna pay $15-$20 for a 0-1 mic, it sure as shit will be a used Mitutoyo over a HF special.

Derek Smalls said:

Honestly, good quality used stuff is so cheap on ebay, I can see no reason to buy crap, just because it's new. If you are patient and keep looking, you could pick up a 0-1 mic, 6" dial caliper, and a couple of indicators for probably around $100+, all name brand in decent condition, all of which will probably still be in decent shape long after the HF pos crapped out. I agree with what's been said about your first tools can later be replaced with nicer stuff and be used in rougher environments, but that doesn't mean that your first tools need to be crap, just that you will later have better stuff tucked away when great accuracy is needed.

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The problem with buying measuring tools on e bay (regardless of the brand) is that most people selling them have no idea of their history and whether or not they've been damaged. Most have been picked up by the sellers through auctions, estate sales, and garage sales.

Just go with what you can afford OP.

No need to spend a lot of money on something you may or may not need later on.

What if after a while you decide machining is not what you wanna do?
What if you get lucky enough to go to work for a company that supplies all tooling?

If later down the road you end up sticking with the trade and do work for a shop were you must have your own tools you can upgrade then.
Every shop I have worked for had a tool program, $25 a week held from your check to pay for your tools, most limited your tool bill to half your gross pay.

What you will find out is a year in school is not nearly enough to be a "machinist".
You will be green and still have a long way to go to earn top pay.

Don't worry though, if you land in a decent shop the journeymen machinist will take pride in bringing you up as long as they like you.
Be prepared to listen to their bull shit along the way but it will be totally worth it. They will show you tricks of the trade that could only be learned on the shop floor.

I can only speak for myself and the ones I have worked with over the years but as long as I knew you were doing your best to listen to me and
treated my tools better than your own, my box and mind would always be open for you to use.

Good luck!

Ohh yeah...this will probably get dull inserts thrown at me...
Invest your money into tooling first then go for the Kennedy tool box.
Anything that will half ass roll around and lock is good enough.
Once you fill that little POS up with good tools that you can work with and not have to borrow 95% of your work week then upgrade to a box that will last a life time.

A $1000 empty tool box cant machine shit.

John Welden said:

Is this guy asking a serious question or is this a troll/joke?

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No worries John.
In all of our hearts here on PM that have been here for some time you will always be the master troll.
You will never be dethroned!

"Bows to the Master"

Of course just messing with you John, most of us know when your just BSing and when your serious.

An amusing review of HF vs Mitutoyo calipers. Warning - some NSFW language.