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Are TalonGrips patented???

DavidScott

DavidScott

Diamond
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Washington
I was wondering before I incorporate the idea into some workholding I need to make. I have looked both on Miteebite's website and TalonGrip Systems website but find no reference of a patent.
 
TGTool said:
Someone else's patent doesn't prevent you from making your own. You just couldn't copy and sell them.
Click to expand...

Sure you can, who's going to stop you? There are no patent infringement police.. So
you get a cease and desist letter, throw it in the trash.. 6 years later when they run out
of money, you can have the market all to yourself.

On the Talon Grip thing. They are undercut jaws.. I'm sure you can find examples of those
going back at least 100 years.. I did it many moons ago before I knew what a Talon Grip was,
taught to me by an old machinist. It would be like somebody trying to patent water.

I'd guess that have a trade mark, and a catchy name, and product on the shelf.. And there
is nothing wrong with that.
 
Well, yeah, I was thinking ethics. In terms of what people CAN do, people can rob, cheat, rape and steal and we see that they do. Most often there are consequences.

And with patent law, the possession of as patent really only gives you the right to sue someone else for infringement. It doesn't guarantee you the right to even sell your own stuff if your patent is dependent on another preceding one. The right to sue, in practice, means that whoever has the deeper pockets wins the slugging match. And finally, a patent is no guarantee that you'll succeed or make any money. A former professor used to say, "Not every good idea is an economic opportunity."
 
You won't be the only one. I know of a few machine shops that build their own fixtures often using many dozens of the inserts used on the talon grips. The inserts are reasonably priced. Guess you could set up and make your own insert/grippers if you wanted but not worth it if the originals work.
 
Seing as how the claw is a fundamental feature of nature (ie grip via impalement) just how the hell did they get the patent any how?
 
I not only want to make the inserts, just one sided for better support, but also was thinking of adding the "knife edge" to a steel Uniforce style shell. I make over 12,000 1/4" x 1" x 6.25" bars a year and have been using vaccum to hold the parts when making them from large plates. A while ago I figured I should be able to decrease the cycle time by 35% if I start with near net size parts, and way less chips to deal with, so 1000 lbs of the new extrusion should be here on the 20th. All surfaces are machined and all I have to hold onto the part for op1 is .045", which will get removed with a .047" radius on op2. I have a few ideas on how to do this and just wanted to know how much I could talk about this when asking for advice.
 
adama said:
Seing as how the claw is a fundamental feature of nature (ie grip via impalement) just how the hell did they get the patent any how?
Click to expand...
I don't think it is patented. But without a patent how the hell do they charge $20 each for the 1/2" wide ones without getting some competition?
 
adama said:
Seing as how the claw is a fundamental feature of nature (ie grip via impalement) just how the hell did they get the patent any how?
Click to expand...

Wait!
Didn't Michael Buffer pick out 5 words from the dictionary, put it in a specific order and got federal trademark protection for the sentence?

With that said, some things should not be patented and this is certainly one.
Make them, sell them, profit for whatever you can.

I for one have made a few thousand self aligning serrated grippers out of carbide balls for a customer who used it their own final product.
Surely Fairlane would have been pissed, but hey! Carbide ball + EDM was less than half of bulk from them.
 
DavidScott said:
I don't think it is patented. But without a patent how the hell do they charge $20 each for the 1/2" wide ones without getting some competition?
Click to expand...

By and large competition is determined by barriers to entry and barriers to exit. So a product that takes specialized tooling, expensive machines or other large investments can hold off competition even with high prices because competitors are reluctant to make the investment and take the risk. Suppose the first guy has some secret process besides, so if I bite the bullet and do a big start up, can he drop his price leave me in the cold? Or at the other end of the scale if anybody and his dog can jump into the business (vaping stores for instance) what edge have I got to make a profit with so much competition and everyone buying from the same few suppliers?

There are probably lots of items that I think cost too much for what they are, but that's the free market system.
 
DavidScott said:
I not only want to make the inserts, just one sided for better support, but also was thinking of adding the "knife edge" to a steel Uniforce style shell. I make over 12,000 1/4" x 1" x 6.25" bars a year and have been using vaccum to hold the parts when making them from large plates. A while ago I figured I should be able to decrease the cycle time by 35% if I start with near net size parts, and way less chips to deal with, so 1000 lbs of the new extrusion should be here on the 20th. All surfaces are machined and all I have to hold onto the part for op1 is .045", which will get removed with a .047" radius on op2. I have a few ideas on how to do this and just wanted to know how much I could talk about this when asking for advice.
Click to expand...

Are we talking 6061? Talon grips usually hold on to .060" to .080" and it is fairly easy to over tighten and tear through 6061 with pit bull clamps. Uniforce style don't have the pull down so that will probably help. I don't think knife edge is necessary, just a 10 to 20 thou rail with the serrations to increase bite. Maybe increase the area you will contact (more or longer clamps) and use a torque limiting driver of some sort when tightening.
 
DavidScott said:
I don't think it is patented. But without a patent how the hell do they charge $20 each for the 1/2" wide ones without getting some competition?
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's $10 each, sold in a pack of 2 for $20.

MiteeBite is pretty good at pricing their stuff *just* on the ROI inflection point of most machinists saying "Fuck it, it's easier to just buy it at that price."
 
Brotherfrank, I use torque limiting pneumatic screwdrivers, the $1200 units, so screw torque is very consistent. The stock is 6061 t-6 and I usually make my fixtures and clamp shells out of the same for best clamping, aluminum jaws hold aluminum parts better than steel jaws do. The part I am making has some details cut on the ends so, oh screw it, new idea!

How about cutting several horizontal teeth, say .02" apart for these parts? I don't want the clamps to bite too deep to minimise travel and it should be a stronger clamping surface. It would save a tool to do the undercut under the single tooth of the TalonGrip as well, making it easier to make. I can bump it a time or two with an 1/8" mill to make some vertical cuts to keep the parts from sliding.
 
gkoenig said:
To be fair, it's $10 each, sold in a pack of 2 for $20.

MiteeBite is pretty good at pricing their stuff *just* on the ROI inflection point of most machinists saying "Fuck it, it's easier to just buy it at that price."
Click to expand...
I thought they were $37 for the bag for the 32050, that's a much better price. Yeah, but when you can make some changes to the clamps to improve their performance on your specific parts their high prices make it easy to justify making your own, with just a few fixture plates.
 
TGTool said:
Someone else's patent doesn't prevent you from making your own. You just couldn't copy and sell them.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. From FindLaw site:
"[A] patent grants what's known as a negative right (or right to exclude): no one else can create, use, sell, or import your invention for any purpose without your consent."

(my emphasis added)

So you can't make them and use them yourself. That said:

"If anyone violates the patent, you can bring an enforcement action and a court can issue an injunction preventing the other party from continuing their actions and award damages".

A patent only has value to the extent you have the resources and will to defend it. If not, it's worthless. On the other hand, if you made your own TalonGrip-like holders, and made billions, and TalonGrip found out about it, they could come after you for some of those billions. If they hold a valid patent.

The Travers Tool site claims that TalonGrip (among other MiTee-Bite products) are patented.
 
That's what I figured, but I don't trust Travers Tool over MiteeBite or TalonGrip Systems for patent info. MiteeBite used to say the Uniforce clamps were patented but removed that from their website after the patent ran out. As far as I know TalonGrips are not patented. I think part of having a patent is that you have to disclose it.
 
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