Is there really no free-machining + weldable steel?

Finegrain · Nov 19, 2017

Hello,

OK, I know the standard answers on machinability and weldability, but I still have to wonder if there is not innovation happening in this space, to yield a steel that has free-machining, or at least cheap-machining, and good weldability. Specifically on the machinability, surface finish quality.

1018 -- very weldable, but gooey and harder to make good surface-finish parts
1045 -- better machinability than 1018, but less weldable?
12L14 -- not weldable
1144SP -- not weldable

What else?

Thanks, and regards.

Mike

MattiJ · Nov 19, 2017

Ovako 550M?
Steel for improved machinability - Ovako

bigjon61 · Nov 19, 2017

What kind of machining are we talking about here? Strictly manual turning? Although 1018 isn't 1215 or 12L14 as far as machinability goes I have had very little problems with surface finish in both turning and machining centers. Does the surface finish NEED to be excellent in a weldment? In my experience most parts in a weldment get additional finishes such as paint or powdercoating, where obviously the surface finish is going to get covered up either way. What is the ulterior motive here and why?

Dan from Oakland · Nov 19, 2017

Generally if it has and "11" or a "12" as the 1st two digits of the alloy, its not going to weld very well. Just the nature of the beast.

Dan

Orange Vise · Nov 19, 2017

Finegrain said:
I still have to wonder if there is not innovation happening in this space, to yield a steel that has free-machining, or at least cheap-machining, and good weldability. Specifically on the machinability, surface finish quality.

CNC, carbide cutting tools, and high temperature coatings have more or less eliminated the market for such a material. Great surfaces in 1018 are now achievable by simply cranking up the SFM. Mirror finishes can be achieved on 1018 turnings using cermet inserts at 1000-2000 SFM.

Conrad Hoffman · Nov 19, 2017

Or, go old school and grind yourself a shear tool. Finish will look ground.

gbent · Nov 19, 2017

I don't know what the op is doing, but IME the OD work is easy. Its drilling where a weldable free machining steel would be most beneficial.

eKretz · Nov 19, 2017

Reading the title, was just thinking "There always has been! 1018/1020/A36!" Get the SFM up to the stratosphere and it looks just as good and machines just as well (but way faster) as the "easy to finish" steels. If your machine doesn't get up to high RPM or the diameters you're working with are tiny then I can see the issue but there are always ways to get around those issues.

Finegrain · Nov 19, 2017

bigjon61 said:
What is the ulterior motive here and why?

I would prefer that even weldment parts that I make look fabulous, if practical. That's all, nothing mysterious.

Regards.

Mike

Limy Sami · Nov 19, 2017

AFAIK, the main problem is the additives that promote free machining, tend to put the kibosh on welding.

FWIW While ledloy etc etc, welds like shite, .it bronze welds, brazes and silver solders a treat, ......sometimes a change in process down the line can be beneficial to all concerned.

P.S. IME EN 8 - (1040) welds nicely - albeit with just a little attention to detail.

Lanso · Nov 19, 2017

“Not weldable” might be a little extreme, I’ve TIG welded free machining steels over the years knowing it wasn’t the best choice but for a quick tool solution around the shop it was always good enough. As the previous post said: bronze weld is a great choice.

Clive603 · Nov 19, 2017

John Bradley ( ref The Racing Motorcycle, A Technical Guide for Constructors) suggests EN 14 A / SAE 1524 / 150 M 19 as a machinable steel that is also good for welded fittings. He also agrees with Limey that EN 8 / SAE 1040 / 080 M 40 welds OK but cautions that care is needed to avoid reducing toughness, important as its not an exceptionally tough steel to begin with. Ruling section for any given tensile range of EN 14 A is bigger than for EN 8 which is nice. Seems to be harder to find tho' which is a pity as general properties are very similar.

Clive.

tnmgcarbide · Nov 19, 2017

4130. has good weldability and a 72% machinability rating....same as 1020 .

it finish turns beautifully , and won't tear and smear like gummy 1020 .

Lanso · Nov 19, 2017

Having machined and welded plenty of 4130, I have to agree 100% with the previous post.

DMF_TomB · Nov 20, 2017

Orange Vise said:
CNC, carbide cutting tools, and high temperature coatings have more or less eliminated the market for such a material. Great surfaces in 1018 are now achievable by simply cranking up the SFM. Mirror finishes can be achieved on 1018 turnings using cermet inserts at 1000-2000 SFM.

.
.
with carbide and 1018 sometimes at above transition point of around 550 sfpm the surface gets shinier and mirror like but if material forming bue or built up edge and breaking off you can get a shiny to dull to shiny thing going especially if dry and sometimes even with coolant. i have had inserts cut mirror like for less than 5 minutes. since i want surface flat and dont care about mirror like surface i usually slow sfpm down below transition point and get a dull but flatter final surface
.
2nd picture showing the shiny to dull to shiny thats ductile iron but 1018 steel will do similar thing. salesman shows up says crank up the sfpm and yes it is shiny a whole 2 to 3 minutes and good way to sell inserts cause often you want to just change inserts even if less than 10 minutes used on them. or you just make final cuts below the transition point (usually <550 sfpm) and get a more even dull surface
.
sometimes inserts just dont want to cut shiny a whole 60 minutes and make less than .0003" TIR wavy surface..... got to ask you really need a mirror finish or a flat low wavy surface what is priority ?

Wild West · Nov 20, 2017

camscan said:
Ledloy is weldable,just not the best.

Will it weld? Yes

Will the weld have any integrity? NO

Search

Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web

Search

Is there really no free-machining + weldable steel?

Finegrain

Diamond

MattiJ

Titanium

bigjon61

Hot Rolled

Dan from Oakland

Titanium

Orange Vise

Titanium

Conrad Hoffman

Diamond

gbent

Diamond

eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad

Finegrain

Diamond

Limy Sami

Diamond

Lanso

Cast Iron

Clive603

Titanium

tnmgcarbide

Diamond

Lanso

Cast Iron

DMF_TomB

Diamond

Attachments

Wild West

Hot Rolled

Similar threads