I am sorry fellas if I offended anyone on the last post.

I am no machinist by any means so I am not really sure how to properly ask an intelligent question thats to the point. I am still undecided and shopping around for a new lathe so I figure I would ask here for some input from actual users before I commit to spending money.

It seems I didn't state my question correctly. Here goes...
I am shopping around for a new small quality lathe that I can use in a tool shed. I do not have one and haven't used one in over 20 years. I am open to any comments on a small south bend, as thats what I used in middle school shop class and I liked it. A new machine would be preferred. I have looked on craigslist but the only machines I see are not anywhere nearby. Driving over 10 hours just to at it just doesn't cut it. The ones that I have seen online either are too big or look like they haven't been taken care of (judging by the amount of random junk on the chip pan) due to the rust, dust and bad camera use and seem way overpriced for the condition they appear to be in.


Do you all know of other websites that offer small machines for sale other than Grizzly/HF? I am looking for something around 10X24 size or so.
New of course, in case I break something and need repair parts. Ability to offset the tailstock to turn tapers, and.....a decent assortment of accessories would be nice.
Thanks.

Geez,

The moderator created this forum for professional machinists. He feels (with ample justification, if you check the web!) that there are many other forums for home shop type machines, and wants this forum to focus on guys that are using industrial-level machines to make money.

That said, he is pretty toleratant of those of us who enjoy the forum and occasionally add something useful to the professsional guys. But mentioning Grizzly or a small Jet lathe and your thread will be locked. Unless he is pretty ruthless about terminating threads this forum will become Grizzly central, which is not what he wants.

So don't take it personal. Listen in. Technical questions at many levels are accepted and there is considerable expertise here. But if you have a question about Chinese home-shop level stuff you will be better served asking elsewhere. Good luck!

J

Grizzly central= SouthBend central since Grizzly bought the SouthBend name and now has the Chinese building the iconic brand.So IMHO it's hard to say Grizzly without saying Chinese SouthBend.Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black,isn't it.

3 wheelin,

The moderator does not tolerate "toys" or "hobbyist" type talk here.

You can hang around, and learn a LOT here, but cannot ask (directly) questions about small hobbyist, or Especially! Chinese hobby grade tools.

Try a few of these sites for help,

Varmint Al's Mini Lathe Page

The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS - Powered by vBulletin

Machine Shop Trade Secrets

http://*******.com/
aka cnc(no space)zone dot com Don't know why the link won't work.
etc.

Stick around and ask questions as long as it is not obvious that it is about a "hobby" or a cheap Chinese machine.
There is a lot to learn here, but they are strict about the content, and the nature of the tools discussed.

Good Luck! I've had a Lot of fun working on stuff like that, now it is my full time job.

Well, as we're talking new, it does bring up a point:

*There are Levin's, which fall into the micro-machining category... ~7x12"

*Myford's aren't really liked here, but tolerated. 7x20" with a gap bed allowing 10" diameter in the gap.

*There are Schaublin's, which fall into same as above (70) or general bench lathe (102)... 5.5x12 and 8x18" respectively.

*Then there are the Standard Moderns (full cabinet machines) or the HLVH-EM knock'off's (Sharp, Cyclematic, Feeler and others)... 11x18/13x34"/and beyond... which is beginning to enter a different work envelope than you are mentioning. In this size, you can take your pick.

That's all, folks.
The only lathes below $20,000US are the Levin and Myford.
New, basic Myford's start around $10k, but that is in England. I don't know what shipping/duty would add.
New 102N-CF's start at $25k, New screwcutting 102N-VM's 50k??
New HLVH-EM knockoff's ~$30K
New Standard Modern? I don't know.

Taiwan or not, I believe the new South Bend's will fill a void if they perform up to expectations (based on the original). That remains to be seen. The fact that the void exists is pretty sad. I have used the JET's of the world. I would rather not work than use one again. They really are that bad.

Just find yourself a running Monarch EE and you never will need another small lathe.

Would break thru the floor of the "shed". Actually I knew a guy operating a two person job shop out of one of those plywood portable buildings...about 1/2 the size of a typical home car garage. Went there once but been so many years now I can't remember what machines he had...but they weren't tiny machines as I recall.

For my curiosity, what would you suggest I do about that situation....allow all chatter of 7 inch POS Chinese lathes and bandsaws here, or ban the new Southbend from advertising their higher quality Taiwanese lathes ?

For the most part, the new South Bend is usually discussed in the South Bend forum. Paula does a great job of moderating there. As long as it stays on the South Bend edge of the forum, it seems like a good match.

Yes, it is surprising how much one can fit in an enclosed space. My space is a small garage underneath my home, in which two cars barely can fit using stack parking.

When I was buying my first lathe, I was told that it is good to go bigger than you think you will need. I would have saved some money if I had heeded that advice. Within the space of about a year, I went from the a 6-inch Atlas, to a 9-inch Atlas, to a South Bend Heavy 10, which I had for a few years. More recently, that was replaced by a 13-inch Clausing Colchester (which now actually helps to provide me with extra income).

I don't want to sound like a machine tool snob, but I would not want to switch back to a smaller lathe. Though I am not a master machinist, my time is valuable to me, and it just takes much longer to make things on a lighter lathe. Also, the footprint of a heavier lathe is not much greater than that of a 10X24. The one drawback of some old large lathes is that they are limited in their top rpm.

So, going back to your original query, I think that most people here would agree that you are better off buying a used lathe, even one from a defunct company. Sometimes parts can be purchased from another company who has bought the brand name, or you can make your own.

There are some reputable machine tool dealers who use (and moderate) this site. Also, in the "Commerce" section, you might find someone with a machine in your area.

By the way, here is a good site (from the UK) with basic information about buying a lathe: http://www.lathes.co.uk/page2.html
That site has links with specific information about many old lathe brands, including the US.

I don't know why a Precision Matthews Lathe wouldn't qualify in this class of machine... specifically this model.

Precision Matthews 11x27

The owner of the company frequents this site, is a US based full time machinery dealer and machinist, is honest and supports his machinery;... Sells and supports quality machinery to full time professionals in the metal business...

I am one of his very satisfied customers and use one of his small 12" swing lathes in my business and have nothing but the highest recommendations. His machines are professional job shop grade imo...very good for short run and one off type work.

About 10K bare, 15K with a read out chuck and tool post.

If its for hobby work go with what the above poster said. He does indeed frequent the site as I remember.

Dimitri

I think that logically, you should ban discussion of them all. Having used Chinese and older Taiwanese made lathes of the same nominal dimensional capacity here in Australia, and the smaller V bed South Bends and their clones (Hercus for example) I find it very amusing that you think that the Chinese made lathes are unworthy of discussion. They're a lot better machine than those South Bends. Ditto Myfords which have to be one of the most overrated machines sold.

Personally I'm happy with your current rules. I guess South Bend, Atlas et al fall into a sub-category of antiques.

Some information for the OP: My Colchester Chipmaster would fit into a small shed, about the same footprint as a South Bend on cabinet base. Ditto my Emco-Maier Maximat 11. The Colchester is around 600 kg, the Emco around 200 kg IIRC. Neither of these machines are real common, the Colchester is long out of production and has an 'interesting' variable speed drive. The Emco, well, I don't know the current pricing but you could probably buy 2 Chinese 6 x 24 capacity lathes with tooling for the price of the Emco.

Funny thing is a lot of the Chinese/Taiwanese 9 x 18 lathes are basically a copy of the Emco Compact 8, or at least started out there.

PDW

3 wheelin geezer

First part of the battle (and its been covered over and over here) is PATIENCE, a machine WILL come your way. This is the hardest part with people getting into machining for tinkering, they COULD get a cheap chinese lathe now, or have to wait and look around for a used quality one. The choice is yours but I recommend the latter.

As far as shed use goes, I recommend a good logan or southend , a heavy 10 would be nice but they seem to be popular right now and people want more then what the machines worth. Rockwell is another lathe brand that would fall within your parameters.

I dont recommend the myford for tinkering use, ESPECIALLY at the new prices today, a new one from the store in my area runs between 19 and 20+ grand!!

As far as dirty machines, guess what? Alot of people who actually use there machines to make stuff and not just put fresh paint on it and oil the ways daily, may tend to be a bit messy, so a grubby chip pan is meaningless, and for people who want unrealistic prices I recommend leaving your contact info with them if they choose to drop the price, as many have watched to much antiques road show and think there junk is pure gold. You want to be the first in line when reality sets in and they want that iron hulk out of there garage.

The rest of your questions and be answered at the home machinist forum and by using the search function for this forum.

good luck.

I don't mean to wish to speak for Milacron or anyone else. But in my opinion there is a very real sociopolitical and psychological reason to exclude them from the forum. They are a by product of offshoring, something most in manufacturing in North America are quite against. As well, for many, there are associated factors when buying goods from a country that supports what the Chinese government represents.

I know I look for any way to save myself from purchasing Chinese. I spent 6$ a couple of days ago on a new binder that is made in Canada instead of a binder made in China for 2$. And it ain't just that binder, I can go on listing the stuff on my desk right now as I study GD&T ( ) that are not Chinese if you wish.

Dimitri

Milacron,

FWIW, I would suggest letting the question simmer until the new SB's arrive on the market (if they don't die on the vine). Let people speculate freely about vaporware until it turns into hardware. Then judge whether the hardware deserves further discussion.

my shed (described as in the back yard and no driveway approch) is 18x22 and has a 4"to6"slab on 12x18 curb
i'm curious about the mathews
any other owners?
2 grand for a new lathe seems a tough row to how

Your argument would have a lot more merit were it not for the fact that North American manufacturing abandoned making small lathes long, long before the rise of the Chinese manufacturing we see today.

In my back copies of Home Shop Machinist there are ads for new flat bed, flat belt drive South Bends for over $7K USD, bare. The Taiwanese machines, with far more tooling and capacity, were 1/3 of the price.

Where and what is South Bend today?

PDW

[1] My view is that your hard line against POS Chinese machines has been an important factor in keeping PM as valuable as it is. [2] With respect to advertising, that's your call as a business decision. I personally ignore ads - all ads, all the time.

I don't see the logic in prohibiting discussion of a particular class of machinery while allowing discussions on where to take a vacation. Which has more relevance?