UL certification/ listing help

Good afternoon everyone,

I found this site through a wild google search. Good times! ( http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-process-getting-machine-ul-certified-254730/ ). I read the above link and it is bit out of date and doesn't really apply in my scenario.

My name is Kenneth Palesh, I work as a controls engineer, I have just received and RFQ (request for quote) from a new customer. On the quote the quantity is for 400 machines that are UL certified (not sure which certification they are after yet). The machine will basically spray items with a water resistant spray, for example this machine will go in a store that sells running shoes, at checkout the customer will be ask if they would like to have their shoes sprayed for water resistance.

I assume the customer wants the UL so they can get this machine in all their stores and not void their insurance.

The machine will at this time consist of a:

single phase 120-vac blower to extract the fumes
diaphragm pump
locking door
filters which include a charcoal filter
3 selectabable programs (large/medium/small)

The fluid is flammable and is very similar to kerosene in its properties, currently looking into what its chemical make up is.

My question is how do I go about getting these/this machine UL certified? Is this better handled via a phone call to someone? or better question if I have never done this before do I want to back away slowly? If I do want to do this does anyone have a ball park of cost and or time frame?

Thanks for your time and help. If I have posted in the wrong area please move this post.
Kenneth Palesh

It's a very big deal, and is unlikely to be profitable for a single customer.

By the way, did the customer specify UL, or a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (of which UL is one)? The other labs are far easier and cheaper than UL, from what I've heard from people who do this for a living.

You betcha they are. UL will ALWAYS fail you once, it seems. the other guys will work with you. We always used ETL.

Step 1:
Find the target UL standard. You may have to do this yourself, and get the customer's agreement, they are unlikely to know what they need. The standard may depend on where and how the equipment is to be used.

Step 2:
Evaluate the requirements, and particularly the tests required, and see what sort of part and material requirements that imposes.

Step 3:
Design to those requirements, naturally maintaining the function (not always easy). This will require materials choices, plus all sorts of guarding and so forth.

Since this sounds as if it may involve some sort of embedded control, find out if the control program will require a testing process. Some do, for instance, boiler controls. If there is any safety function of the embedded program, then there very well may be a requirement. You do NOT want to be surprised by this, it may well, if applicable, affect how the controls are programmed, the writing process for the program, and documentation.

Step 4:
Perform your OWN tests substantially in the same way as the required UL tests. This will save you lots of money in test costs. We pre-tested all our products for EMI, and out of several hundred, we had only a couple fails in actual testing. I would advise doing some preliminary checks early, because the later you find a problem, the more it costs.

Step 5:
When the local testing seems to pass, then you have to be a bulldog and make sure there are NO CHANGES needed by the customer. You are going to freeze the design, and they need to know it is a "hard freeze". Even worse if there is safety programming... that is expensive to change.

Step 6:
Submit for formal testing. You will need to submit BOMs with part descriptions. DO NOT specify particular parts if you can avoid it.... Specify things as generally as possible: "UL recognized microswitch rated <whatever>", NOT "manufacturers part number XXXX microswitch". You do not want the production held up by a shortage of a specifically identified part

Once you have the "pass", you should be good to go. there will probably be some factory inspections by a locally contracted inspector reporting to ETL, or UL, etc. That inspector will be the one who compares what you said you would use to the actual parts being used, and is the one who can hold up the works if they do not match.

It really takes a person who is an interface to the agency if you have much UL work. If you do not, you may want to pass on the work, because there is a good chance of losing money on your first UL product, especially if it is a contract job.

KennethPalesh said:

The fluid is flammable and is very similar to kerosene in its properties, currently looking into what its chemical make up is.

Click to expand...

While not specified, I would add a fire suppression system, probably a CO2
bottle, plumbed into the area, with a solenoid switch, or consider
adding a system from Firetrace.

Actually, you would be better off to start by contacting U/L or ETL or whatever, describe to the engineer the nature of the product, materials and so forth. For this of course there will be a charge. The engineer will then determine which testing group has the authority, they will then set up requirements and testing schedules. THEN knowing what the requirements are design the product, process and environment to suit. Then run the tests and have the product listed (not certified, U/L and others DO NOT certify, they only state the the product has passed their tests and criteria).

You are talking about months and thousands of dollars.

Tom

Good afternoon everyone thank you for taking the time to reply to me.

the customers insurance agency has specified UL so that is the directive. I have the found the following which I will be encouraging the customer to take advantage of ASAP: Pre-certification Review | Services | UL

I do feel though once they see all that is required they might rethink this project and or open up the budget some.

I have also looked into flame suppression and I assume this also includes a smoke detection system of some form (where there is smoke there fire)

I will keep this thread updated with what happens and we will go from there.

thanks again