Ultrasonic cleaning and anodized parts - what's the deal?

Hi everyone. I've got a question about ultrasonic cleaners and aluminum and this seems like a pretty good place to ask it, since a lot of people on here seem to know a lot about the practical aspects of handling metals. Forgive me if this question is answered somewhere in the forums; I can't find it.

I'm a bicycle mechanic in the planning stages of a repair shop business and I'm trying to figure out what kind of parts cleaning system to use. I've used aqueous parts washers with alkaline detergent before but I'm looking for something a little smaller, more contained, and less overkill. Ultrasonic cleaners seem promising, although I've never actually used them. Everyone reports good experiences with them on the common, all- or mostly-steel small parts of bikes that need intense cleaning, namely chains and cassettes (rear gear clusters). However, I'll want something I can throw other grunged up parts in. Most of those other parts will be aluminum, and most of those will be anodized. Bike parts have a lot of very thin "bright silver" anodization, and black/dark ano is prevalent too.

What I'm trying to figure out is what's the ultrasonic process and solution I can use, if any, that's guaranteed to never mess up the finish or integrity of aluminum parts, or comes reasonably close to it, is also compatible with steel and ti, and is good at cleaning packed oil and debris? There's a lot of opinions and loose experiences running around on this topic on the internet, but I'm having a hard time finding the science. Thanks!

Edit: If possible, I want to buy a cleaner that doesn't have the sweep frequency feature, or at least isn't advertised as such, like this. It seems like the ones without sweep are always cheaper for a given volume. But, is sweep what I would really need to ensure I'm not at risk of damaging parts?

I'm no expert, but what I understand is that because the coloring in anodize is a dye that's infused into the (slightly porous) aluminum oxide skin of an anodized part, that if it's exposed to an aggressive detergent or some solvents it can leach away the coloring. Be aware that a powerful ultrasonic can erode away weaker metals just from the cavitation effect of the microscopic bubbles that the ultrasonic vibrations create, throw a piece of aluminum foil in one to see a quick demonstration of that effect.

If you want to go this route, get a bunch of stainless steel beakers from a lab supply or Ebay/Amazon source, and keep different solutions in them for classes of parts/grunge. Just keep plain, clean water in the ultrasonic machine itself, throw the beaker in when you want to clean something. Don't use glass, they can break!

Try different cleaning agents with old test parts, keep notes about what works, including cleaning agent and time. I have used alcohol and acetone in US cleaners, but it's not recommended - keep a fire extinguisher at hand if you ever try this, and use small amounts only.

You gotta use different chemicals to clean them, what won't corrode the alu will in all likely hood corrode the ferrous parts, you can use either on the titanium.

If the anodizing is done right it will hold up ok in a ultrasonic so long as the cleaner is neural, if its not sealed properly - died correctly or too thin, yeah your going to have problems.

I get the drift that you are looking for a single cleaning facility for all things needing cleaning. Well, there is no such thing. I use pressure washers, steam, solvent bath and ultrasonic. Please remember that your cleaning efforts not only creates clean parts, but also creates a waste issue. This waste issue is expensive and can be very time consuming. So cost becomes a major issue. Water is the least expensive medium for cleaning and disposal and should always be your first choice. Solvents are expensive to buy and dispose of. Out of all the solvents, diesel is the least expensive. For those other needs, a spray can of brake cleaner or a can of acetone or paint thinner will do nicely. Today detergents and oil emulsifiers are the cleaning agents of choice for a parts bath, pressure washers and ultra sonic baths. Detergents and emulsifiers do not damage metal finishes or paints, where solvents will. Garden variety liquid dish soap is amazingly effective and inexpensive. It is also possible to buy very strong commercial emulsifiers from industrial supply houses. It is like 409 on steroids and will readily dissolve dried and gelled oil deposits and hardened tar, which is like magic on old lathes and mills. It is amazingly effective in solution with water in sonic cleaners.

Now, the original subject, sonic cleaners are not all equal. Some clean very well, others don't clean worth a damn. Generally, power is the key in watts. For your application a 10 or 11 liter tank with at least 3 transducers and 300 watts of power is what you need. A sweep frequency function is much better than not having one, as it's cavity cleaning is enhanced. All parts should be rough cleaned first before being stuffed in the tank. Soap and water based cleaners is all you will need. Do not use a 300 watt cleaner on eye glasses, because it will remove the optical coating on the lenses.......ask me how I know! (50 watts max for eye glasses). Water temperature is important to control the aggressiveness of the cleaning action. Lastly, I have never damaged anodized aluminum parts in my ultra sonic cleaners.

With anodized aluminum parts, it is always a bit of a crap shoot. It shouldn't be, but it is. The dyes are applied after anodizing, but before sealing. Corrrectly sealed anodized parts will retain their dyes.

Dark colors are less of a problem because they bind better to anodized aluminum. If you ever see 'white' dyed AA (rare), then don't use ultrasonic cleaning.

Bright silver AA is a different process and is usually achieved by using a 'bright dip' prior to anodizing. If done properly, it is resistant to tarnish due to ultrasonic cleaning.

Use a gentle soap in the ultrasonic bath. Do not use harsh acidic or alkaline cleaners as they may destroy the finish.

Oileater mixed with water per label instructions is a great cleaner for bike parts. It is corrosive to aluminum if you leave it for too long. The best practice is to run the part through the cleaner with Oileater and then rinse the parts thoroughly in really hot tap water. Just lift the basket out of the cleaner, drain well and dunk it in the hot water. Change the water and dunk a few times. I've never had it hurt any finish.

The ultrasonic cleaner you link to would be a good choice for what you want to do. You can start that running and as you strip the bike, drop the parts into the parts basket. About the time you get the frame cleaned up, your parts are ready to rinse.

Agree on HOT water & mild detergents, with emulsifiers as a fall back. ("Try different cleaning agents ..")
I'd sooner have sweep frequency than a 'de-gassing cycle' as a 'blingety' feature, but neither are outright necessities.
Make some spiders to suspend certain parts (use plastic, kabob sticks, etc). Contact with the basket can be a nightmare on any finish.

The linked setup might be a bit meager on power for the volume, but time is on your side with the right (detergent?) mix.
Simple Green works pretty well on gun parts tho' cosmoline and gun greases can require longer run times, as an example.
Some stuff won't just 'shake' loose/off, but a U-S 'pre-bath' can make scrubbing a lot less of a chore. As said, wipe well before you dunk.

Do not use any alkaline detergent on color-anodized aluminum.

It will strip the dye right out of it. Try it on a test piece to see the
effect.

I use to bubble wash my parts , just hot water , had plastic pellets for scrubbing real dirty stuff. Water can be filtered and reused , mild soap in the wash cycle. Nothing fancy.

Meant to add I used a Jacuzzi pump and jets.

I have seen (in Goodwill stores) Calphalon/Commercial Aluminum Cookware pots that were hard anodized (no dye) when new that were apparently run through home dishwashers. They had been turned silver color with no trace of the anodized finish. Dishwasher detergent seems to be a strong base, so that it is unsafe to get your hands into and will eat anodizing. That is why the pot makers caution against cleaning them in a dishwasher. I would never be so bold as to sneak greasy lathe parts into our dishwasher while SWMBO is out. But it might get them clean.

Larry

I am a serious road cyclist and build/maintain my own bikes. I have a small ultra-sonic cleaner but wouldn't recommend it for what you're doing. I've used it on some Dura-Ace bottom bracket bearings and the Harbor Freight cleaning solution was clearly caustic such that it affected the shiny finish on the part.

Ultrasonic cleaners aren't really meant to get clumps of crap off of things, although the bigger ones obviously can, instead they shine the best when fine cleaning things like bearings etc. Breaking a chain to drop it in an ultrasonic cleaner would be the height of stupidity in my opinion, and I've never seen that done by any competent workshop. Ever. The other factor is that when cleaning the chain, not only have you flushed out the contamination, you've also flushed out the lubricant, and that can be difficult to get right back properly inside the links without soaking the chain.

The best cleaning solvent in my opinion is plain old kerosene, as it will remove the contamination that will cause wear, yet is in itself a lubricant. Kerosene is cheap, and can be run in a regular parts washer. I presume you can obtain low odour kero up there, which is what I use. If you want to go the ultrasonic route, I think a basic model from HF or similar will probably do the job. Use it with plain old water and a small amount of detergent, however I'm not a big fan for this type of application. Again, I would use clean kero to flush the bearing races before lubricating and reassembly, and then tip that used kero in to the parts washer for more heavy duty work.

Bransonic MC3 is specifically made for ultrasonic cleaners and aluminum. Anything caustic will eat raw or anodized aluminum. Purple degreaser is the worst. Simple green is mildly acidic, and will turn your wet aluminum parts into a battery if left wet on a surface, resulting in possible galvanic reactions.

The success of ultrasonically cleaning anodized aluminum will vary depending on how well it was done. Frankly, I wouldn't do it with someone else's parts, and besides, it's unnecessary. A good parts cleaner is what you need, with the accompanying solvents.

Thanks for the great replies everybody. I think what I'm going to do is get the 9L, 300W cleaner, try it out on some test parts, and learn its quirks before subjecting anyone else's stuff to it. I've seen pretty good evidence (here's one vid on youtube) that it will be fine for dirty steel drivetrain parts, and it seems like I should be able to figure out a solution for cleaning other parts. I'll try out Oileater, dishwasher detergent, plain water, and I'll be mindful of not leaving stuff sitting in the washer too long.

I'm gathering that the deal with ultrasonics for bike stuff is pretty similar to what I'm used to with aqueous parts washers with alkaline detergent; they're mostly fine, but stuff can get messed up if the finish quality was poor or you leave it in there too long. I wish I had more specific rules to follow but I guess it is what it is. Thanks again!

I'm still somewhat perplexed at to why you would be using an ultrasonic cleaner for something as lame as cleaning a chain and cassette. I like the ultrasonic cleaners, and they have their place, so bearings for example, sure, if you feel it's necessary, but a chain? Without being rude, how long have you been a mechanic on bikes anyway? I know a lot of guys who wrench on bikes professionally and can honestly say I've never once even seen an ultrasonic cleaner in a bike shop, never mind being used to clean chains! Chains etc can get very covered in crap, so whatever solution you settle on will probably need to be changed each time, so what do you do with all the 9 litres of waste, down the sink?

Obviously I don't take my bikes elsewhere, but if I did, and I subsequently leant that the "mechanic" had broken my chain to put it in an ultrasonic cleaner to fill the links full of water before spraying some lube on the outside, it would be the last time he'd see my bike and I'd be sure to relate that story to a many people I rode with as possible! Not that the guy would be in business long. Even with a linked chain, it still takes time to get on and off. So the guy puts his solution in his ultrasonic parts washer and waits for it to heat up, then takes the chain off the bike, puts chain in parts washer and waits for the cleaning cycle to complete. Takes chain off and waits for it to drain as best it can ie not too well as it's now full of water all set to do its corrosive stuff. Then he puts the chain back on the bike and throws some lube on the outside so it looks good for the sucker who bought it it to him. Time taken, 30, amateur hour, minutes.

Alternatively you clip a decent chain cleaner (Park Tool make good ones) on the chain. Fill it to the line with kero or low viscosity lube of your choice. Wind the crank backwards so the chain passes through the cleaner a few times and that part of the job is done. 30 seconds. Unclip it and throw the black concoction in the bin where it will evaporate on its own accord. Those chain cleaners are very efficient so don't use much. Hold your rear wheel over the parts washer so you can clean it without the crap running down over the wheel. Personally I flick the cassette off the hub as it doesn't take long and I have a small parts washer. Wash it and you're done. Time taken, 5 minutes, tops, and you haven't filled your customer's chain links full of water for him to discover a few months later when his chain is suddenly worn out prematurely.

What some people don't seem to appreciate is that "over-cleaning" a chain can do as much, if not more damage than not cleaning it at all. When the chains are manufactured they're run through a bath where the chain is fully immersed and the lubricant gets in to the pins and under the rollers where it needs to be. Most of the dirt and grime is on the outside, and not too much grit etc actually makes it in that far (especially if using wax based lubricants). By "over-cleaning" this lubricant is flushed out with a solvent. Not an issue in itself if it's replaced, however the standard chain of events, if you pardon the pun, is the well meaning person follows their chain washing by spraying the chain with a lubricant. That lubricant really just sits on the outside, with some running down inside the plates. So in effect the chain on the inside is either devoid of lubricant and/or full of water the chain was washed in. In an ideal world maybe you'd run the chain through a cleaner, then ultrasonically clean it, then put it in an oven to thoroughly dry, then soak it in wax lube. But who the heck has time to do that? Besides which on most road bikes you've needed to break the chain to do that, and the plate where the link pin passes will only take rejoining a few times at best before it's screwed up, so you'll need to take links out after a few iterations of that. etc etc etc, all well intended, but completely unnecessary.

For the record I don't clean and lube my chains as much as I should, but get at least 5,000 km out of them. I use Shimano DA chains on all my bikes.

Long story short, the process is indeed to clean the chain, rinse, heat, and soak in lube of your choice, preferably something with some water-displacing abilities, then re-install with a new Shimano/SRAM/KMC/Campy link/pin as per the chain. The results are very good, with thorough lubrication on the inside and a minimal coating on the outside, and if you're set up correctly, your equipment does most of the work for you and you're spending about 5 minutes per chain. The real question isn't whether it's appropriate for shops to do this kind of procedure from a quality standpoint, but whether it's cost-effective compared to sticking to the rule of only either cleaning the chain quickly on the bike or selling a new chain, which is the direction most shops have gone. I don't think the latter view is totally unreasonable, but I like having the option of being able to efficiently do a pro job of cleaning them. Some chains are perfectly expensive, after all.

I don't totally hate the on-bike cleaning devices but I find them lacking for shop use. The above method gives good results in a very controlled, fast way.

Managing the waste solution is indeed something I'll have to worry about, but I imagine a tankful should be good for a number of chains/cassettes. The sediment also does settle, so I imagine I can take advantage of that to not generate too much waste water.

Mate it's your shop and you can do with it as you like, that's the beauty of being the boss. But this is a field I'm really passionate about so I'm trying to help you out here. Other than a video you've found on Youtube, where else have you seen shops breaking a chain and putting them in an ultrasonic cleaner. I've been around this industry for almost 20 years and I certainly haven't. There's a reason for that, and that's because it's a crap idea. You may think you're doing the job better, but unless you spend an extraordinary amount of time and effort, you're not. Apart from the reasons I stated above, there's no way as long as my butt points south that you could break a chain, prepare the cleaner, drop the chain in, pull it out, dry it, lube it, thread it and re-link it again in 5 minutes. Plus there's the cost of the link pins, who pays for them, the customer?

As I said above, if I learnt a shop I'd taken my bike to had broken my chain so they could "clean it" I'd be mighty pissed. As you well know, a chain is NOT meant to be broken, they are installed once, and even then the install is fraught with danger, and it doesn't always go as planned, hence why Shimano provides two pins with new chains. Anyone who has been in the industry more than 5 minutes knows you don't always get a good join on your first go every time, and it could mean having to take some links out and splice in a couple of replacements if you get a really bad screw up. That happens to even the best guys at times at times, sometimes you just have a bad day. Who pays for the inevitable occasional screw up, the customer?

I too am not a big fan of the chain cleaners, but Park Tool's is ok, it's fast and does the job as advertised. I've had others and some are crap, some are much better. I used to have a great one many years ago, but left it on the ground and in the battle of chain cleaner v Pete's clodhopper, the chain cleaner lost. I stepped on it and cracked it. I tend to do the job by hand with a brush, but I'm not running a commercial shop where time is money. If I was, I'd be finding a good chain cleaner and using that. Replacing a customer's chain because it's dirty? That's just criminal. I tend to buy consumables like this in bulk, and just keep them in stock, but vaguely recall the last time I bought DA chains they were costing me almost 90 Aussie bucks each.

If you're dealing with brands using master links then if it makes you feel better to remove the chain to "clean it", then knock yourself out. Personally I think you're wasting your time, and time is money in business that someone eventually has to pay for. However with a pin linked chain it's generally considered very bad practice to remove a chain unnecessarily, to the point that Shimano make that point in all their literature on chain installations. However if you think you know better than the manufacturer then go for it. That's the beauty of running your own shop, you can do whatever you please

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...loadFile.html/10-speed Chain Installation.pdf

knurledflanges,

My advice is based on many years of actual use by a bike shop owner and expert mechanic who sold and worked on the very highest grade bikes - bikes selling for six figures and with the absolute very finest components and extremely particular owners. The contrary advice you are getting is simply wrong. If you want to provide the very best service you can for your customers, extreme cleaning is part of it. It will really set you apart from the jacklegs who wipe the bike with a dirty rag and call it good or those who hose it off with a pressure washer and Simple Green.

As to cleaning chains, I'd buy another smaller ultrasonic cleaner just for those nasty buggers. Although its often smarter for you and the customer to replace a used chain, you are correct in thinking that the chain needs cleaning when its not replaced. If you are working on high end stuff for high end customers you need to do high end work. And sometimes that involves stripping and cleaning like you're working on fine jewelry or medical equipment.

henrya said:

knurledflanges,

My advice is based on many years of actual use by a bike shop owner and expert mechanic who sold and worked on the very highest grade bikes - bikes selling for six figures and with the absolute very finest components and extremely particular owners. The contrary advice you are getting is simply wrong. If you want to provide the very best service you can for your customers, extreme cleaning is part of it. It will really set you apart from the jacklegs who wipe the bike with a dirty rag and call it good or those who hose it off with a pressure washer and Simple Green.

As to cleaning chains, I'd buy another smaller ultrasonic cleaner just for those nasty buggers. Although its often smarter for you and the customer to replace a used chain, you are correct in thinking that the chain needs cleaning when its not replaced. If you are working on high end stuff for high end customers you need to do high end work. And sometimes that involves stripping and cleaning like you're working on fine jewelry or medical equipment.

Click to expand...

Another guy who knows better than the manufacturers.

No mate, the advice above is not "wrong" it is specific advice from the chain manufacturers' themselves. I provided the link to Shimano's advice above, that's standard Shimano spiel and that was just the first link I found. I'm not going to waste any more of my time finding other links to support that, but Shimano provide very good installation advice that accompanies every single one of their products, and if you click on any chain installation notes of theirs you will find the same advice; don't break the chain.

Meanwhile Campagnolo, unremarkably, provides the same advice in their own technical instructions http://www.campagnolo.com/media/fil...l 11-speed chain - Campagnolo_REV01_11_13.pdf Specifically under "Maintenance", there is a note "Important":

Do not remove the chain to clean it

Click to expand...

They also reiterate what I stated above, that chains of this type can only be removed twice before you throw them in the bin. The reason is the plates are distorted as part of the link pin installation. It's why, if you do for some reason need to break the chain it's not done at the existing link pins, rather you push out another standard pin. So the "mechanic" takes the chain off each time the bike is in the shop. You seriously call yourself an "expert mechanic" and yet don't know something as basic as this?

But WTF would the manufacturers know about chains hey Nobody here is suggesting to "wipe the bike with a dirty rag" and call it good. There are plenty of ways to clean a chain thoroughly while it's on the bike, choose whichever you prefer. However breaking the chain to "clean it" is not one of them.

I find any suggestion of replacing a chain because it's dirty bordering on criminal deceit. If a chain is dirty you clean it. If a chain is worn you replace it. You do not replace a chain that is not worn. I would have thought an "expert mechanic" would know full well that if the cassette is also worn and toward the end of its life and you put a brand new chain on it, the chain will skip when power is applied. I'm sure the guy will be thanking you when he crashes on his next sprint because the "expert mechanic" replaced his chain on a worn cassette . In contrast a worn chain will continue to function just fine on that same cassette to the end of its life. The reason is the teeth shape changes, and a worn chain will conform to the worn teeth. What sets a good bike shop apart is not some bullshit "cleaning" process, it's being honest with the customer, giving them good advice, and not ripping him/her off. You drop a chain wear tool on the chain and check the life left in the chain. If it's at the end of its life you also check the cassette and front chain rings, if they're also badly worn you tell the customer the bad news as all will need to be replaced. If just the chain is worn you tell the customer the moderately bad news and replace it. If none are particularly worn you clean and re-lube them, then tell the customer when he picks it what you did, what you found, and an honest appraisal of what will need doing next time. Holy crap, customer service is not rocket science!

Anyway, I've wasted enough time with those who think they know better than the people who build the stuff. I don't look at 6 figure bikes, I ride them, so it's time to do just that on my TIME, last valued at $18K if this is a pissing contest

"My advice is based on many years of actual use by a bike shop owner and expert mechanic who sold and worked on the very
highest grade bikes - bikes selling for six figures and with the absolute very finest components and extremely particular owners."

Anyone who owns a bike worth that much won't want his chain cleaned. Take it off, toss it away, install a brand new one.
Probably after every ride.

Talk to the guys who use chains for real, the motorbike riders. There's no cleaning. You replace the chain when it's worn.
Every two chains, you do the sprockets as well. Course the chains we use are the thinking-mans version. They've got
quad rings in there to keep the lube in and the crunchies out.

Jim there's a world if difference between the two, even though they're both just chains at the end if the day. I too came from a motorcycle background (dirt bikes).

One of the main differences is the bicycle chain is shifting to different sprockets, so it's inherently much thinner and more flexible than a motorcycle version. Lubricating a chain makes a dramatic difference to the smoothness of shifting of a modern 10/11 speed cluster.

What most people don't properly understand is that it's not so much the dirt and grit that tends to reduce the life of a chain, in fact it's lack of lubrication. This is the reason the manufacturers' recommendations are NOT to use solvents on the chains when cleaning them, as the solvents flush out the lubricant deep within the chain, and that is difficult to properly replace. Similarly the life of a chain is dramatically reduced when riding in rain, even if the rain is very heavy (hence clean water), as the water tends to similarly flush out lubricants. This topic comes up every few years, and I've often been misquoted in suggesting not to clean a chain. That's not what I advocate at all. By all means clean the chain, but be aware that "over cleaning" it (and an ultrasonic cleaner would be a great way to do just that) is likely to do more harm than good unless the water is thoroughly removed and the lubricant properly replaced; that isn't as easy as it sounds. More often than not if the chain isn't too filthy I will clean it by wiping it down with a rag soaked in the chain lubricant. Only when it's really bad and I've neglected it for a few rides will I give it a deeper clean, and only then by using a fluid such as kerosene that is itself somewhat of a lubricant.

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but that's just the way it is, and the difference between those who profess to be self-proclaimed "experts" versus those who actually understand what they're doing.