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Universal boring head shank Q's

There is some stuff that looks to unscrew around the shank once some ss's are removed, but I'm guessing the shanks are not interchangeable? Or are they? I'd prefer to hear before trying. Or loading it on the T & C and regrinding to a different taper while still attached. :)

Were the heads ever sold with anything besides #4MT?

smt
 
There is some stuff that looks to unscrew around the shank once some ss's are removed, but I'm guessing the shanks are not interchangeable? Or are they? I'd prefer to hear before trying. Or loading it on the T & C and regrinding to a different taper while still attached. :)

Were the heads ever sold with anything besides #4MT?

smt

By "universal", are you limiting yerself to products of "Universal Engineering"? A specific head? Or all general-purpose boring heads in general?

For-sure wot fits my Chandler-Duplex is Imperial, whilst Wohlbangers, Narex, Gamet etc. are metric ,and that is just for openers.

AFAIK, they are ALL 'proprietary' at shank to body as to shape and size and shoulders, and... and ...even if the threads are to a standard of one flavour or another.

Meanwhile, arse-end straights and tapers are 'all of the above'. MT, B&S, NMTB and CAT, BT, various Quick-Change, self-locking, etc. etc. descendants / ascendants / sputniks,

Even lathe spindles are more predictable..

:)

Bill
 
Why bother grinding??

You could rough machine (roughing end mill even) a boring head spindle mounting shank .075 off center, and boring head will still bore a perfectly round hole... Could be a tiny bit off indicated size, but boring bar flex, is a bigger issue..

Might not repeat well when removed.. But who would do that on a job???

Not the most highly loaded mill tooling, only one cutting edge...... No X or Y feed, only Z..

So a simple lathe turned boring head shank, that blues in fairly well, would be more than good enough.. All that spindle taper needs.... Is a good enough surface to transfer the minimal load the boring bar can put on spindle... with 1 cutting edge on a fairly flexible boring bar....

Straight shank would also work fine, if it provides enough grip in collet or EM holder, if you have the room in Z...... .075 out straight shank, would still bore a round hole...
 
Stephen,
I've got a Universal with a 1" shank. It is part of the body. Are you referring to the ring with 2 SS's and 2 pin holes? That ring holds the guts together. A very sweet and smooth movement.
 
Sorry about lack of clarity: referring specifically to a "Precision Universal Tool Head" (boring head) by the Precision Tool Co/Brooklyn, NY. IOW, Universal "brand"

Ray- That is what I was afeared of: removing the collar might only reveal more gubbins....

Ken,I did not realize there was also a "Universal Engineering" Company boring head that is slightly different. Lower profile, not fully universal. Might yours be one of that brand? If indeed yours is a Brooklyn made unit, it would be great to hear the correct procedure to remove the shank.

Why bother grinding??

On account of shanks are damn hard (Rc); and in fact it is easier for me to set up on grinder than for carbide on my small lathes. The swivel table alone on the grinder is easier and more accurate to set for making machine tapers. Though come down to it, i might rough on lathe. A universal (type) boring head can be advanced or retracted in any increment by operator input (usually a crank) while it is running. You can lower it to a given height in a bore, crank until the tool cuts (say) an O-ring land a given depth, and then retract the tool, all while it is running. This is under precise dial control, not gripping a friction ring. Contrary to your comments, on a Universal (type and brand) the shank needs to be perfectly centered so the stationary center ring is not doing the hula while the operator is trying to crank the spindle to advance it in or out while it is running. Being a facing head, it also requires to be dead square to the axis of rotation to get flat facing.

Thanks for the input, Ray and JR: The MT4 has enough meat to just make an R8 taper, which would vastly increase the resale value. My SB mill has a NMBT30 taper which would be the most convenient machine for me to use it on. Maybe 1" straight should be the default.
Problem being the extension of holding it in an ER40 collet chuck, adding almost 3" to the stack height down from the spindle face.

I'll probably end up doing #30 taper, but if the shank was easily removable, I'd feel better about just making a replacement shank & turning the MT4 into R8 for "if I ever sell it". :)

Here's the type I have, Universal Tool Company:
Precision Universal Boring Head Boring Bar Milling Tool w Holder Set MT4 | eBay

Here's a Universal Engineering:
Universal Engineering NMTB 5 with 4 5 8" Boring Head STK 4324 | eBay

smt
 
I have threatened to turn down my Precision Universal shank, as well. 3/4 is a very nice size for fitting anything, but I would expect gobs of chatter with the shank that small, considering how much reach this head can get with the various long bars installed.

Another option would be to get a straight shank MT socket and install a couple of setscrews angled upwards to hold the taper in place (lightly dimple 4MT shank on boring head to lock) similar to the Weldon quick change system for NMTB 50 and 40. You could then machine the straight socket end to whatever you need for an adapter. WT has straight shank 4MT sockets for under $20.
 
Found this post from 2004 by the late, great, lamented Jim Kizale.

Interesting info, but contrary to what he states, the later heads are hard as glass. The edge of a new Grobet file will not mar the shank on mine. So chopping, boring, and threading as he describes would be a challenge. His post does clarify that the body is one piece from the front end, to the small end of the taper shank. Everything else assembles down over the shank. He also mentions: " There are a zillion 7/32" balls in there (ask me how I know the size) so be careful."

He comments that Wohlhaupter was the cheap import tool at the time, if you could not afford the better quality Brooklyn made Universal. :).

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/universal-precision-boring-head-91660/

I'll probably make it a 30T when time or a job makes it appropriate. Will take chance (based on that experience) as to whether to consider boring and threading for interchangeable shanks "later".

smt
 
Bringing this thread back, since it is the newest one out there -

I have one of the the Universal Precision boring heads (2-6711, Brooklyn, NY showing on the head) that takes the 3/4" bar, with a B&S 10 taper.

In the box was just one bent bar, the small tins with grease fittings, and some allen bolts.

In several posts, there has been reference to 'never use the bent bar without the proper adapter'. Does anyone has a photo of what that adapter should look like? The head is in great shape, and I don't want to be the one to wreck it.

What has been the consensus for the best grease? I have a little Kluber left over from my mill spindle bearings, don't know if that would be ok or not. The head is a little sticky, but usable (I don't think I want to take it apart until I have to).

Thanks in advance.
 
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in my "newall" box it says to use petroleum jelly if the supplied grease runs out.

Speaking of the newall head, it appears to be the same as the "precision" but with whitworth throughout.
Was a #4MT but I turned it down to R-8, made a press-in slug for the draw bar.
It turned very nicely with carbide.

the adapter has a screw that goes into the slide block vertically (in a vertical spindle) to aid in retention and rigidity.
 
This one screws right on the spindle nose of the 3B Jig Bore. The smaller one has MT4 shank
 

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Is the adapter for the 'bent bars', going from the boring head and few bad pictures on the internet:

A block that fits snugly in the recess on the bottom of the boring head and sticks out about 1 1/4" below the boring head
Has a round stub shaft going up, that fits to where the normal boring bar goes (and locks in place with the boring bar setscrews)
Has a vertical clearance hole to allow it to be bolted into the bottom on the boring head
Has a horizontal bore with setscrews to hold the bent bar in place?

Simple as that, right?

Just found an image of one, posted by Mike C. a few years ago.IMAG0069.jpg
 
Sorry to sort of hi-jack this thread, but I do have a couple serious questions about these and I didn't think that recreating a thread was the best idea. I did do a bunch of searching on the internet about these and can't seem to find some answers.

1. For anyone with experience, how rigid are these with a square compared to others with vee style ways?

2. At $200, is that on par or can they be had for better deals or are there better ones for the same price or less? I am currently looking on the bay, if that helps.

3. I am looking at one to run in a flat belt drill twice and then shift to my VN12. I need the reach down in and it needs to cut 3 grooves. My problem, how likely is it for a dealer to confuse a MT4 for a B&S10?

I might have other questions and thanks for the time. Like always I respect and look forward to your opinions. Thank you.

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk
 
I don't consider it a hi-jack. any info on these tools is good to keep in one place.

These only have one central hole. So if you need to do larger radii, the offset/bent bar adapter is essential. In fact, the "adaptor" is almost necessary (more convenient at least) to bore small central holes. The hole in the slide is offset to one side. Putting the adaptor in, brings a bar location back to nearer center. There was also a little vial of shear pins in the box, the original grease, a crank, a knurled knob, and some other stuff like a linkage to stop the rotation, etc.

Point being, if you get one of the cheaper heads, not in a box, on the 'Bay, it will be missing a bunch of sort of simple, but essential stuff. Even some of the units with the box are missing parts. So the short answer is educate yourself as to what you need to actually use the head for your own purposes, and then buy a lot that has all those parts. Also look at the socket the knurled knob goes in, a lot of those are torn up. Some with box lots seem to have multiples of that plate in them to replace it.

I have a boring head problem and started this post 2 years ago when I bought one. I've had a Wohlhaupter among numerous others for a lot longer, so it always seems easier to load one of those instead of getting around to modifying the shank on my Universal. So I still have not used it.

Per the price discussion - mine was $99 BIN in great shape in the original box with most everything except the adaptor, from a midwest machinery dealer, on eBay. At least 6 unused tubes of original grease, lol. No bars, though. I lucked into the adaptor last year on a BIN for $35. That was a rare bit of luck, I don't even think it was described properly, though the dealer knew what it was on the invoice shipped with it.

I've been watching since my first purchase a couple years ago, and would probably buy again (hey, I admitted it's a problem) at around $200 - 250 in good shape in a good box with everything in it. There is one i had to stay strong to resist recently. Even some of the low $ units have been on ebay, off and on, for 2 years now. so they are not selling like hotcakes unless perfect and complete.

Mfisher - sorry i missed your post. If you still have any questions on the adaptor, I can measure mine.

smt
 
Not before time:
(7 years after OP)
I finally did the deed and converted one of mine with MT4 shanks to an MM30 taper. South Bend's version of NMTB30 with a drilling on each side for setscrew retention up through the spindle nose drive dogs, rather than a drawbar. End straight extension + threads for drawbar option was included anyway just in case for any future use.

Impetus was possibly needing the Universal to clean up (face) the sealing face in some VW heads; combined with being stymied doing work on several other projects with materials in transit or other frustrating holdups. Converting the shank was therapy. :)

DSC_0071 - Copy.JPG

Simple boringDSC_0055.JPG

FacingDSC_0058.JPG

Used a derelict keyway cutter to start a ring groove. After a little bit of depth it hung up due to (lack of) clearance. Demonstrates the process, though

DSC_0064.JPG

Wohlhaupter UPA3 has a lot less overhang and greater overall travel; but the no-fuss manual control of the Universal makes it seem more fun/more convenient to use. Need to isolate the hydraulic power unit on the South Bend mill, though. It has started creating a resonant frequency when in use for power quill feed..
 
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