UPS scam?

klemchuk · Jul 18, 2017

Called for pick up for customer. Later in the week I get an invoice for $3 for them to take the call plus 0.24 for fuel surcharge, plus 0.16 tax. Anyone else had this happen to them? I'd be interested to find out how widespread this practice is.

DMF_TomB · Jul 18, 2017

klemchuk said:
Called for pick up for customer. Later in the week I get an invoice for $3 for them to take the call plus 0.24 for fuel surcharge, plus 0.16 tax. Anyone else had this happen to them? I'd be interested to find out how widespread this practice is.

.
i had a call a decade ago about a package for me, no postal service mentioned and they transfer me and i wait on phone and eventually i find my package is a free gift i didnt even order and i was getting charged for the phone call by the minute as i was waiting on the phone on hold to find out about my package.

Bobw · Jul 18, 2017

I've heard they whack you if you call for a pickup..

Trick is to just find a UPS man and hand it to him, or
get your UPS mans cell #.. Or just drop it at a UPS store.
Here in the middle of nowhere, I can just bring it down to
the drugstore and stick it on top of the pile and the UPS
man picks it up.

Chip Chester · Jul 18, 2017

I got burned a couple of times when customers wanted things shipped on their FedEx account. Did so, then their accounting department kicked it out since they didn't recognize my 'ship from' address. FedEx turns around and bills my company, months later. Explain the situation to FedEx and the customer Acct'g department, but FedEx won't change billing 'twice'... it's gotta come from me. So I don't have a FedEx account any more. Turns out they'll still ship stuff for you just on a CC if needed (for me). If it's for a customer, I have them send me their printed-out shipping documents so it's on their local ship computer.

For the OP, maybe have the customer call for pickup instead of you. And have the driver sign a slip from you stating you won't be charged for anything regarding that shipment.

Chip

SRT Mike · Jul 18, 2017

klemchuk said:
Called for pick up for customer. Later in the week I get an invoice for $3 for them to take the call plus 0.24 for fuel surcharge, plus 0.16 tax. Anyone else had this happen to them? I'd be interested to find out how widespread this practice is.

I would say it's a scam. If they did not notify you that you are engaging them for a chargeable service, they can't bill you. Send them a bill right back for a $10 access fee for the pickup, $1.78 telecommunication surcharge and $0.83 tax. It's exactly the same thing they did to you.

<RANT>

I just finally cancelled my UPS account for good and removed them as a shipping option on our website. This is a bit of a long post (rant) but it feels good to vent and I type fast.

Years ago the sales guy showed up and claimed he could be competitive with US Postal on rates, so we gave him a shot and they were pretty close on pricing, and it was so nice having the UPS guy show up and take all our stuff, and their tracking and loss rates were so much better.

Then one time we got a massive invoice. Turns out they had changed their rules and all shipments to Canada now were charged a $50 customs processing fee which they would ask the recipient "who should we bill this to? you or the shipper" and the recipient said "uhh, the shipper". We balked and UPS said "Oh you need to click the box in the software that the customer pays the fees" - that box wasn't there before... it would have been nice to have been informed.

So we stopped using them for international.

Fast forward a bit... our excellent rates lasted for about 6 months and started creeping up. First was "rural surcharge" which isn't actually rural areas but anywhere more than a given number of miles from the nearest UPS center. My business now is in a major metropolitan center and considered rural because it's between two UPS centers. So every single package was getting hit with a ~$2 surcharge. Then the fuel surcharges hit and they kept climbing. Then the residential surcharges.

Fast forward to this year... I stopped shipping UPS but still offered it as an option on our website and thus kept my UPS account open for such and for occasional incoming shipments where vendors require use of your account. I had three large ground packages they billed me $35/ea. Then the following week I get a bill for an extra $8 per package. No explanation other than "misc fee" on the invoice. I called them and NOBODY could explain that that fee was for. They made numerous guesses but I never got an answer. Then the following invoice they hit me with a couple of surcharges on the same shipments increasing the price from the initial $106.50 for the three to over $146 for the three.

It took me calling the main office in Atlanta, then getting the run around, THEN filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau to get it straightened out. Eventually they just removed the charges from my bill - I cancelled my account permanently and I removed UPS as a shipping option on our website. All because they tried to dick around with BS surcharges.

Amazing.

I am friends with the UPS driver. He still stops by most days to hang out and chat. From his perspective, things aren't going so well.. they have cut managers pensions, the pay is low so they can't hire anyone and they are stretched tighter than a drum, and they are under massive pressure from US Postal and especially from automation. And the biggest problem is Amazon is a huge percentage of their business and now doing their own delivery.

Let UPS flounder. They are one bunch of assholes that I will enjoy seeing crumble.

moonlight machine · Jul 18, 2017

Chip Chester said:
I got burned a couple of times when customers wanted things shipped on their FedEx account. Did so, then their accounting department kicked it out since they didn't recognize my 'ship from' address. FedEx turns around and bills my company, months later. Explain the situation to FedEx and the customer Acct'g department, but FedEx won't change billing 'twice'... it's gotta come from me. So I don't have a FedEx account any more. Turns out they'll still ship stuff for you just on a CC if needed (for me). If it's for a customer, I have them send me their printed-out shipping documents so it's on their local ship computer.

For the OP, maybe have the customer call for pickup instead of you. And have the driver sign a slip from you stating you won't be charged for anything regarding that shipment.

Chip

I got burned on fed ex as well. I always use my customers number so they pay shipping. I started getting bills, found out they were charging the customer and me for the same package!!!! Assholes!!! Thieves!!!

PeteM · Jul 19, 2017

Shipping services are kind of like medical insurance. If you're a huge company and have bargaining power (think Amazon, McMaster . . .) you get great rates. If you're a small business owner, it's what the traffic will bear.

Folks complain about the Post Office and it has its flaws. But we should be hugely thankful it's around. Without this competition there would be an oligopoly and package shipping costs would be sky high. And because there is price competition, UPS, FedEx, FedEx Ground, and a half dozen other services have become like the airlines -- looking for a way to add an almost hidden surcharge every way they can. The Post Office is about to join in -- it sent a notice this evening that it will start billing Click N Ship customers for errors in package type, package size and weight, etc. Seems they've just updated computer systems to allow them to do this.

Another postal plus, IMO, is that we have a service where a real person visits (or comes near) most every residence and business in the country. UPS or FedEx daily coverage a tiny fraction of that. And most folks seem to like their own postman/woman. Point is, it's a form of redundant communication that may serve us well when someone takes down the Internet, cuts the fiber lines to a city, etc. In a way, a defense asset.

CalG · Jul 19, 2017

Perhaps we should subsidize the USPS.

It's a novel idea that has been tried......

scadvice · Jul 19, 2017

DHL has problems also with us small guys. I spent hours dealing with their account approval process because they take care of calculating and adding any tariff fee's for products purchased from other country's for you. I kept asking for fee examples but all they did was assure me they were going to give me a very nice discount.

Finally approved after a month and all their credit information, paperwork, and so forth. Got ready to give my new account number to an overseas vendor and the quote was THREE TIMES HIGHER than the vendor had been charging me from them through DHL. What a ripoff, they go through the same process to pick up the crate and deliver to me plus maybe 30 seconds on the computer to auto calculate tariff's send the bill.

I refuse to use the account and they are constantly sending me e-mails trying to get me to do so. I unsubscribed but they still come so they are now on my junk mail list.

Mike1974 · Jul 19, 2017

SRT Mike said:
I would say it's a scam. If they did not notify you that you are engaging them for a chargeable service, they can't bill you. Send them a bill right back for a $10 access fee for the pickup, $1.78 telecommunication surcharge and $0.83 tax. It's exactly the same thing they did to you.

<RANT>

I just finally cancelled my UPS account for good and removed them as a shipping option on our website. This is a bit of a long post (rant) but it feels good to vent and I type fast.

Years ago the sales guy showed up and claimed he could be competitive with US Postal on rates, so we gave him a shot and they were pretty close on pricing, and it was so nice having the UPS guy show up and take all our stuff, and their tracking and loss rates were so much better.

Then one time we got a massive invoice. Turns out they had changed their rules and all shipments to Canada now were charged a $50 customs processing fee which they would ask the recipient "who should we bill this to? you or the shipper" and the recipient said "uhh, the shipper". We balked and UPS said "Oh you need to click the box in the software that the customer pays the fees" - that box wasn't there before... it would have been nice to have been informed.

So we stopped using them for international.

Fast forward a bit... our excellent rates lasted for about 6 months and started creeping up. First was "rural surcharge" which isn't actually rural areas but anywhere more than a given number of miles from the nearest UPS center. My business now is in a major metropolitan center and considered rural because it's between two UPS centers. So every single package was getting hit with a ~$2 surcharge. Then the fuel surcharges hit and they kept climbing. Then the residential surcharges.

Fast forward to this year... I stopped shipping UPS but still offered it as an option on our website and thus kept my UPS account open for such and for occasional incoming shipments where vendors require use of your account. I had three large ground packages they billed me $35/ea. Then the following week I get a bill for an extra $8 per package. No explanation other than "misc fee" on the invoice. I called them and NOBODY could explain that that fee was for. They made numerous guesses but I never got an answer. Then the following invoice they hit me with a couple of surcharges on the same shipments increasing the price from the initial $106.50 for the three to over $146 for the three.

It took me calling the main office in Atlanta, then getting the run around, THEN filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau to get it straightened out. Eventually they just removed the charges from my bill - I cancelled my account permanently and I removed UPS as a shipping option on our website. All because they tried to dick around with BS surcharges.

Amazing.

I am friends with the UPS driver. He still stops by most days to hang out and chat. From his perspective, things aren't going so well.. they have cut managers pensions, the pay is low so they can't hire anyone and they are stretched tighter than a drum, and they are under massive pressure from US Postal and especially from automation. And the biggest problem is Amazon is a huge percentage of their business and now doing their own delivery.

Let UPS flounder. They are one bunch of assholes that I will enjoy seeing crumble.

I wonder how Amazon manages free shipping 2 day, with Prime? Sure, it is $99/year, but I get the video, music, "deals" and I order my fair share from there so I know I make up the $99 in shipping charges easily...

Also, years (10+?) ago I worked out an outfit where a guy worked at UPS part time and his benefits and pay were inline with his full time job at the shop. :confused:

I guess they (UPS) have fallen off...

SRT Mike · Jul 21, 2017

PeteM said:
The Post Office is about to join in -- it sent a notice this evening that it will start billing Click N Ship customers for errors in package type, package size and weight, etc. Seems they've just updated computer systems to allow them to do this.

If you read that notice from USPS a little more carefully, you will see it's actually in your favor.

If you have a service that lets you automatically print postage on your computer using a pre-funded account (such as Endicia, Stamps, EasyPost or ANY third party service that lets you print postage), the new US Postal package weight verification system will bill you when your package has too little postage on it. And they will REFUND you when you have overpaid on postage.

I was shocked when I read that! UPS and FedEx will both bill you when you underpay on package weight, but they don't automatically credit you when you overpay for package weight. Maybe they will if you call and make a big enough stink, but I know from experience with a business next door that their attitude is that it's your responsibility to weigh your packages, and if you're overpaying because you're incorrectly overestimating weight, that's your fault and tough shit.

With that in mind, the fact that USPS will *automatically* refund you without you having to do anything when they find you have overpaid for postage was an absolute breath of fresh air. They gained a lot of points in my book with that move.

SRT Mike · Jul 21, 2017

Mike1974 said:
I wonder how Amazon manages free shipping 2 day, with Prime? Sure, it is $99/year, but I get the video, music, "deals" and I order my fair share from there so I know I make up the $99 in shipping charges easily...

Also, years (10+?) ago I worked out an outfit where a guy worked at UPS part time and his benefits and pay were inline with his full time job at the shop. I guess they (UPS) have fallen off...

Amazon ships so much stuff with UPS that they get to dictate terms to UPS. They make up something like 30-40% of UPS' total volume. I believe the original deal was something like "we do so much volume that you will deliver all our stuff in 2 days but you'll charge us ground pricing". Of course, Amazon also has warehouses all around the country, and UPS guarantees ground deliveries - so ground is guaranteed next-day within 150 miles, 2-days within some further distance, etc. So Amazon can just build warehouses strategically placed around the USA and offer guaranteed 2-day service to the entire country with something like 7 warehouses. That's why there are always warehouses in PA, CA, FL, TX, CO, IL and a couple other places... they give coverage to almost all ZIP codes in the USA for 1-day and 2-day service at ground rates.

Also, if you look at UPS ground rates, they are through the roof! I shipped a one pound package a couple months back, it was $14! Same thing with US Postal Priority Mail Flat rate is $6.25 which is unlimited weight if it fits in the box, and it's guaranteed in 2-days to most of the USA. The individuals and small shippers are subsidizing the Amazon's and LL Bean's. UPS is taking all their profits on the small shippers. The corporate accounts operate at razor thin margins.

UPS drivers are part of the Teamsters union. Those guys are getting excessive pay for a totally non-skilled job. Management is a revolving door and get paid nothing. That's why UPS is investing so heavily in automated/driverless trucks, drones and the like. They want to unburden themselves from drivers that are costing them $100k++ a year in salary/benefits. It's totally unsustainable.

SIP6A · Jul 22, 2017

SRT Mike said:
UPS drivers are part of the Teamsters union. Those guys are getting excessive pay for a totally non-skilled job. Management is a revolving door and get paid nothing. That's why UPS is investing so heavily in automated/driverless trucks, drones and the like. They want to unburden themselves from drivers that are costing them $100k++ a year in salary/benefits. It's totally unsustainable.

When UPS does away with there drivers how much do you expect the rates to go down?

Mud · Jul 22, 2017

Amazon ships so much stuff with UPS that they get to dictate terms to UPS. They make up something like 30-40% of UPS' total volume.

I dealt with a large distributor of motorsports parts and accessories that had 4 warehouses.Their negotiations with UPS in about 2005 resulted in a deal that actually had UPS rebate a percentage of their previous 5 years' shipments payments as part of the contract. The big guys get super deals to keep the trucks rolling and the rest of us pay to make up the difference.

UPS has their system finely honed to pick up every opportunity to charge more. It took me 2 years to get my location declared Commercial rather than Residential even though I've been a UPS account holder since the days of paper receipt books. I'm currently disputing a $26.80 address correction charge. I shipped 2 boxes to an address of "#410 - 660 ABC Avenue". Their system corrected it to "Unit 410 - 660 ABC Avenue." So I paid $13.40 X 2 for that and have to beg to try to get it back.

Bob La Londe · Jul 22, 2017

Recently had Fed-Ex pull a fast one on me for a couple dollars. I paid for and printed a shipping label on-line. I also err on the side of caution when shipping. When measuring I go up to the next even inch. When weighing I go up to the next even pound. Absolutely zero reason for the price on-line to be wrong. They authorized my credit card, but did not charge it. Then two weeks later they finally charged it and the price with $3 and some change higher. I still have plenty of time to dispute it, and will. Either they change it or the whole charge gets disputed with my CC Co.

SRT Mike · Jul 24, 2017

SIP6A said:
When UPS does away with there drivers how much do you expect the rates to go down?

They won't drop their rates based on that and I wouldn't expect them to. But as soon as the technology makes delivering packages trivial, then what does UPS have that other people don't have? UBER will have a huge fleet of vehicles that will be sitting idle part of the time - what's to stop them running deliveries at 2am when the vehicles would otherwise be idle? Point is, UPS value is their size and embedded position in the market. That changes as soon as automation comes along and makes those two things largely irrelevant. And that WILL cause massive downward price pressure, and when those other guys don't have to pay $100k+/year for a union guy to drive a truck and crush your packages, UPS will get absolutely hammered in the marketplace.

Ain't capitalism great?

EPAIII · Jul 25, 2017

I am one of those small companies and I also ship as an individual. I saw the discounts that UPS and FedEx gives the larger companies, even those who are just medium size, while I was working. But I get none of that.

I like USPS and use them whenever possible. So far, I have not been disappointed. They even give me a discount when I print the label online. That discount applies to everyone.

CarbideBob · Jul 25, 2017

I've only used UPS since 1974.
No complaints....strange indeed....
I did learn very long ago not insure packages although some may be $20,000 in a box the size of a notebook.
I do also preach to my packing people than any box should be able to be thrown off the roof of the building two or three times and still be fine.
Bob

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