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using a fume extractor in the grinding room?

vanguard machine

Stainless
Joined
Dec 20, 2011
Location
Charleston and NYC
one of my customers is downsizing and offered me a great deal on a large 3 stage hepa filtered fume extractor, one of the nice big ones on casters with the articulating arm w/ hood.
and while it would be helpful for the few times a year when we have to break out the big MIG and spool gun for some alu stuff i really mainly use TIG so it just seems like overkill, and space in the main fab area is severely limited so i have to weigh out the loss of floor space.
in the grinding room however..and next to the surface grinder, this thing could be really really handy.

so basically, what do you gents think about using a 'fume extractor' as a 'dust collector'

i think i just want someone to tell me to move along so i don't have to kick myself next year over not going to drag this beast of a thing back here ;)
 
Tried something similar a few years ago and found the filters plugged up so quickly
it wasn't worth the effort.
You might be able to rig it to one of those "cyclonic" style units to
separate the heavier crap and gain some filter life....or maybe not.
Dave
 
Puzzling to hear that, as welding respirators and such are rated for both welding fumes and dust.

A 3 stage unit should provide plenty of capacity if the prestage filters are cleaned/replaced regularly.

HEPA filters are the best for protecting human lungs. I'd grab it, esp if you don't have a dust collector already. And if it can be mounted overhead, it can fit in your fab area, where I'm guessing offhand grinding generates the majority of your dust.

Good lungs are hard to find....;)
 
What do the replacement filters cost?. For a lens coating machine I fixed up the Hepa filter was priced at $1700, fortunately the OEM sticker was still attached and was about $200 from them.
 
how about finding the manufacturers and asking them in that model can be used in a grinding room ? .say by changing the filters? etc etc.
 
Puzzling to hear that, as welding respirators and such are rated for both welding fumes and dust.

A 3 stage unit should provide plenty of capacity if the prestage filters are cleaned/replaced regularly.

HEPA filters are the best for protecting human lungs. I'd grab it, esp if you don't have a dust collector already. And if it can be mounted overhead, it can fit in your fab area, where I'm guessing offhand grinding generates the majority of your dust.

Good lungs are hard to find....;)

I'm going off personal experience. The welding shop at the last place I worked at had about 10 wall mounted fume extractors all around the shop. It had a large cyclone outside the building. I know because I installed the system. They also had portable units for when people were working in areas the wall mounting ones couldn't reach.

The grinding bay had a purpose built dust extraction system mounted in the ceiling. I couldn't tell you what make it was now but it was very effective.

There's a big difference between, fumes, dust, and grinding dust.

I agree about the lungs. I wish I'd have taken more care of mine.

Regards Tyrone.
 
What do the replacement filters cost?. For a lens coating machine I fixed up the Hepa filter was priced at $1700, fortunately the OEM sticker was still attached and was about $200 from them.

actually the peripheral filters are just standard house hvac filters of some nominal size, i have a few sheets of carbon filter as well that i could cut up to make washable filters. and upon initial inspection at least it looks like the bigger center filter can be blown out and washed.
 
I'm going off personal experience. The welding shop at the last place I worked at had about 10 wall mounted fume extractors all around the shop. It had a large cyclone outside the building. I know because I installed the system. They also had portable units for when people were working in areas the wall mounting ones couldn't reach.

.....There's a big difference between, fumes, dust, and grinding dust.

I agree about the lungs. I wish I'd have taken more care of mine.

Regards Tyrone.

Didn't realize there was a big difference between dust and grinding dust. My mistake.
 
IME its not a issue, they won't plug that fast, because your not collecting the grit with them, unless your mounting them right on the wheel head, the typical fume extractor will keep the air clean, but theres not enough suction there to keep all but the lightest of grit in the air stream.

Typical surface grinder dust collector is easily double the suction power to pull up the grit - keep it air born and collect it.

Ones i have been around typically have a 4 micron spun polyester pre-filter pad, that will collect most of if not all the grinding dust, the hepa is really only removing the smoke size particulate.

If your grinding wet, the oil mist will be the problem, that will cause them to plug up.
 
Dust collectors are whole different animals than fume extractors. As mentioned, the velocity of the airstream for dust collection is based on type of dust and volume. I seem to recall that grinding abrasive media wants 1600 FPM, a fume collector would be a fraction of that.
Steve

As these things are volume sucking devices can't you change the FPM by changing tube size?
And where is that 1600 measured, in the pipe or at the wheel contact point.
Anything is better than nothing but if grinding dry I wonder if there is a spark arrestor in the entrance.
Nothing says fun quite like setting the inside of your vent piping on fire and high velocity air, metal fines and sparks get you there.
One neat demo for the rookies, ball of fine metal grind swarf and a bic lighter. Just kind of glows but some very serious heat. Now try to put that out.
Bob
 
As these things are volume sucking devices can't you change the FPM by changing tube size?
And where is that 1600 measured, in the pipe or at the wheel contact point.
Anything is better than nothing but if grinding dry I wonder if there is a spark arrestor in the entrance.
Nothing says fun quite like setting the inside of your vent piping on fire and high velocity air, metal fines and sparks get you there.
One neat demo for the rookies, ball of fine metal grind swarf and a bic lighter. Just kind of glows but some very serious heat. Now try to put that out.
Bob


The velocity is in the pipe, the speed has to be high enough to keep the particles in suspension. The issue with too little flow is the dust settling in the pipe. Like a drain with too little drop it will fill up with swarf. Fume systems are not designed for sparks either, it just is not a good fit.

Steve
 
As these things are volume sucking devices can't you change the FPM by changing tube size?
And where is that 1600 measured, in the pipe or at the wheel contact point.
Anything is better than nothing but if grinding dry I wonder if there is a spark arrestor in the entrance.
Nothing says fun quite like setting the inside of your vent piping on fire and high velocity air, metal fines and sparks get you there.
One neat demo for the rookies, ball of fine metal grind swarf and a bic lighter. Just kind of glows but some very serious heat. Now try to put that out.
Bob

Not really the van blades are the wrong profile to create the higher levels of suction that takes to get to those air flows.
 
The decision of when to use a dust collector which typically uses filters that are cleanable versus a fume collector that uses filters that have to be thrown away when dirty is determine by how much dust you are generating or collecting? If a small amount for a few hours a day then a fume collector could work depending on the type of filters meaning how much filter area is in the filter to hold the dust. If the dust loading is high then a dust collector with either a cartridge, shaker bag, or baghouse would be a better option as these units are cleanable with compressed air except the shaker bag requires shaking the filters to release the dust.
 
I’d toss the hepa for grinding & otherwise dusty conditions, depending on the blower & HP these can move a lot of air. Hepa filters don’t like smoke & oily mist at all and I also don’t trust them for removing metal fumes.

I have a Donaldson Torit 3hp dust/fume eliminator that takes 3 14”dia x 2ft tall 5 micron paper filers for dust use. It has a 2” exhaust pipe. I think it’d prolly drive 4-5 HVLP paint guns if you wanted it to. A timed pulse accumulator blow down system momentarily creates positive pressure in the filters when you hook 90psi air to it to keep them clean. Been using the same filters for near 20 years now with it hooked to a small blast cabinet & an overarm for mig smoke.

I’d say get it & see about 5 or even 3 micron filers which roughly equate to N95 or better protection.

Good luck,
Matt
 
Is there a difference between fume extractors and dust collectors or are they the same thing?
 








 
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