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Where do I stand

Bruno Batalia

Plastic
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Location
Orchard Park, N.Y.
Where am I in comparison to my fellow machinist out there

Hello all, let me first start of by saying I am not posting this to gloat or pat myself on the back. Or for any other sort of self rewarding reason. I simply wonder where I stand. A brief intro, I am 25 years old and have been a machinist for 6-6 1/2 years. I started fresh outta high school. I had no clue what the trade entailed only that the ad in the local paper stated starting pay was $9 an hour. I started at a job shop running CNC 3 & 4 axis mills and 2 Axis lathes. The shop did alot of medical and government work. They also came up with a line of after market parts for motorcycles. I Began as most people just running machines and doing simple checks on the parts. There was a certain wow factor about the process to me....you take a piece of bar stock and make a functioning part :cheers: So i started asking alot of questions and looking over everyones shoulders. After a year or so I started setting up machines primarily CNC mills. I soon after was in charge of 3-5 operators. I showed them how to load/unload the machines. Did 1st article inspections as well as in process inspections for the operators. I showed operators how to read inspection equipment, and how to preform some of the simpler frequency checks on the parts they were running. The shop really got busy which was not so good for me. The started having pretty much everyone run machines...no more learning ( which I understand from their side ) I then started working for the place where am now.
A unique situation i believe. Where I work is not a machine shop. We sell and assemble safety relief valve. I machine the internal components and some of the smaller valve bodies. When I first started I ran a manual lathe and mill, which was a bit of a learning curve from my previous CNC experience. I learned alot of good information and it is nice to have that background now. Mind you aside from the 1st day i was there and the previous person showing me how to turn the lathe on and off and where the spindle speed settings were, I pretty much had to teach myself :willy_nilly:
I got through it and had alot of fun. We got really busy which was good for me this time. My boss sat down with me and told me about the plan to start doing alot more in house manufacturing and to accomplish this we would be buying a full CNC lathe. Heres the kicker he wanted me to run the show as well as pick the lathe out...true story I thought he was just messing with me at first but he wasn't. It was alot to take in but he said he had all the confidence in me ( glad someone did lol ) That brings us to the present. We purchased a Mazak Nexus QT 200 no live tooling or sub spindle. It does have a parts catcher. Great machine...love it actually. I now am the sole point of contact for all in house machining needs. I from time to time go to other machine shops to help them if they are having trouble with our parts. I do all the short production runs of the more exotic materials IE) Duplex, Inconel, Monel... those types of bastards ( 98% of everything else is 316 stainless ). I modify exsiting parts if needed. I also do alot or R&D and proto-type work. I Buy all the raw materials and tooling. Write all the programs make all the fixtures. Set up, prove out and run the machines. Preform all the initial and in process and final inspections. I Came up with all the forms and procedures for what we do in house. I don't mean to make myself out to sound like gods answer to manufacturing and if i did I apologize I just want everyone to know what it is I do here because having said all that I realize that not having that more experienced veteran if you will, Someone to say theres a better way to do that or a more efficient way. I feel that kinda puts me at a disadvantage at times. Thats why I posted this lengthy ramble. I would like the opinions of all the veterans, they guys who have been around the block, shop owners. I want to know where do you think I stand? how competent would you say I am? would you hire someone like me? I have aspirations of opening my own shop someday, and I hope I am on the right path. I know theres plenty more for me to learn in this amazing trade/skill and I love learning about every nook and cranny .. so go ahead sock it to me ( be easy on me please LOL )

Respectfully,
Lukus- Orchard Park N.Y.

Ps) thanks for your time in reading this.
 
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Always post topic titles that give some hint of what is contained within "where do I stand" tells us absolutely nothing. For all practical purposes you might as well put "X" and nothing more. Please edit this ASAP.
 
I think you're doing a lot better than some of us who, after thirty year's in the business, are still under-utilized, under-appreciated, and over-looked by the people for whom we've worked.

If you have any aspirations about having your own business, start boning up on your book-keeping, accounting and financial management skills asap. Technical savvy and experience will be acquired along the way, little by slowly.
 
That fact that you recognize that you don't know everything and are nervous when you realize how much their is to learn is a good sign. It means you will continue to try and improve which is the best you or anybody can do. At every stage in my life and tool making career when I have felt I really have a grasp on all aspects of it, I find an entire other sub sect of machining that I knew nothing about. This forum has opened my eyes to how little I know.

I would rather work with someone who can say "I don't know" than the guys who constantly try to tell me how smart they are, which their are many. I don't need them to tell me how smart they are, I can tell they are a dip shit already.
 
You are "god's answer to manufacturing", but just at your present employer where you make safety relief valves. If you leave there, they will find the next "god's answer to manufacturing safety relief valves" to run the show. Happens at every shop.

If you really want to find out how much you've learned, and how quickly you can adapt to other kinds of machining, get another job. Maybe instead of working at a production shop making stainless steel safety relief valves, try something different, such as a job shop making plastic prototype medical parts. Then after that try a shop that machines 2-ton castings, etc... That is how you get the experience it takes to adapt to running your own shop.

As has been said, also try to work on learning more on the business side of things as you go. Learn quoting, sales, marketing, finance, employee relations, etc.. After you own your own shop it will become apparent that making safety relief valve parts (or whatever) is really the straight forward, gravy part of the business. The hard part is getting the work, getting paid (on time!) for doing the work, and then maintaining the customer relationship so that you can repeat the cycle. Good Luck!
 
Certainly there are a lot of things that you would probably do differently with more experience gained from experience machinists and programmers. Perhaps you should plan on attending IMTS in Chicago, you’ll certainly see a lot there. However keep in mind these are mostly dog and pony demos that have been optimized to the max. Still you’ll see a lot of innovative processes, including state of the art tooling, machines tools and work holding concepts.
 
Stay where you are at and learn some more.

GD&T ?
CAD/CAM?
Quality assurance? (statistical process control, statistics, gage R&R, calibration)
Computers (Microsoft Excel, for instance)
How to fix machines (tightened any gibs yet? align cnc lathe spindle & tail?)

Do you know basic trigonometry?
Do you use speed & feed calculations often? Use G96 on a lathe?
Use G41 & G42 on a lathe?

I have about the same years of experience, 6, 6-1/2, but I started job-hopping early. These days, I'm just a tourist. I've been employed at like 14 or 15 different machine shops. Each one seems worse than the last.

It seems rare that anyone would be allowed the opportunities and responsibilities that you have earned.. I think those are your biggest asset, and you sound like a pretty damn good machinist too.

Keep it up, and stick around. I could probably use your advice.
 
Certainly there are a lot of things that you would probably do differently with more experience gained from experience machinists and programmers. Perhaps you should plan on attending IMTS in Chicago, you’ll certainly see a lot there. However keep in mind these are mostly dog and pony demos that have been optimized to the max. Still you’ll see a lot of innovative processes, including state of the art tooling, machines tools and work holding concepts.

IMTS is like a car show. Going there might get your juices flowing, but it doesn't make you a better driver.

There isn't much you can't learn out of books, trade magazines, youtube, this forum, back issues of screw machine world, etc. etc.
 
If you really want to find out how much you've learned, and how quickly you can adapt to other kinds of machining, get another job. Maybe instead of working at a production shop making stainless steel safety relief valves, try something different, such as a job shop making plastic prototype medical parts. Then after that try a shop that machines 2-ton castings, etc... That is how you get the experience it takes to adapt to running your own shop.

A very good description of the term "journeyman".
:D Dave
 
There isn't much you can't learn out of books, trade magazines, youtube, this forum, back issues of screw machine world, etc. etc.

I disagree with that statement to some extent. How do you know if there is a better way when reading a book? We all have different experiences, we all have somewhat different approaches to tasks, and we all learn differently. One person might need someone to show them where as another can read a description of how you go about doing it and neither is better or worse; but the book doesn't interact with you when you ask it a question for clarity. It also can't adjust your machine for you when you're chattering. Being shown, as in an apprenticeship or as a pupil, is a very good way to learn. You get the example, then you repeat it under supervision, then you're on your own to do it for a while to build proficiency. That kind of interaction cannot happen via a computer - no matter who's answering the questions on the other end. It's not the same.

There's a lot to be said for being self taught, and learning from books, but they aren't the same as actually doing it and having someone who knows right from wrong standing there offering guidance. You can get the job done, but their experience is a valuable input to the process. I'm going back to school because I am self taught; what I know is that there's a lot out there I don't know and I'd like to run through the program to try and pick more of it up. :)
 
Yeah, I see your point now, Jim and Perk. Even for someone who seems to be a strong book-learner and self taught machinist like Bruno, there are things that you gotta see to learn.

And there are things that you gotta use daily to get familiar with, GD&T might be a good example.

Still, he shouldn't feel like he's missing out on a whole lot, especially not with the kickass job he describes.
 
Thanks for the kind words apestate. I agree there is still alot for me to earn out there I do use trig & speed calcuations pretty much daily I took a class on GD&T. I am fimiliar w/G-code as to where I can read it but not program w/it I would love to lean some sort of cam software.. i will say that since i have no mentor to teach me in the areas feel I lack I turn to this bored alot. I value your ideaology and opinions.
PS) if anyone hear would like to teach me G-Code programming I am all for it:D
 
I feel for you. Where I'm at is a somewhat similar situation. I pretty much had 2 yr tech school of here is the on off switch go do stuff and 3 months in a job shop before I walked in to a tool and die shop and was hired. I had about 3 1/2 months of here is the quick explenation and come find me when your done style training. I was explained the long way around to do things and subsequentially had to teach my self how to be efficient. I work in a powder metal plant doing tool maintenance, so there is some form and cylindrical grinding, some lathe work, some milling, some polishing, some EDM, some CNC. It was a big pain to learn and a good portion was reading up and pushing buttons to figure out yes or no to push that button again.

I feel that no matter where you are being somebody who is enthusiastic about learning and mastering whatever it is required is a big plus. I've been offered a lead man position for when I was working as a millwright installing industrial paint systems and I was offered a production manager position where I work now. Both offers came less than 9 months of being on the job. I think that just being able to learn off the cuff makes you a cut above the rest. I've seen guys get trained in our EDM program 3 to 4 times before being thrown back in to some corner.

I always say that nowadays its about making the company invest so much money in to you that you are to valuable to be let go. If you can learn quick and master the process well then of course they'll continue investing. Thats what makes you valuable.
 
Sounds like my life, but where's your education?

Education is everything bro, what has stopped you from going to school? I'm 25 right now, so I can totally relate. I began machining in high school and my instructor got me a job at a local machine shop. I was undocumented at the time, so I lied about my identity so that I could work, so that I could go to school. Feels really bad when you apply to a job and after you answer that you don't have a SS number, they simlpy rip your application and Essay right in front of you, happened a number of times.In my earlier years, i was washing hardware, chip sweeper, greasing machines etc. until one day i got my hands on a conventional lathe. i moved my way up BECAUSE I WENT TO SCHOOL, because I was taught things that still no one has even mentinoed in machine shop that only I use and help me a lot. I was given the position of a leadman when I was 19 in charge of 9 guys about the age of my dad... still I programmed their machines, troubleshoot offsets, programs, machines... I was given so much responsibility and I wasn't even making $10.00 per hour. I really hated when i asked for a raise and the owner said this to me: "why you need a raise? you don't even have a family yet" :angry: I lend my hands and taughts to that company but my heart and soul belonged to the classes I took in college. I began learning about CNC programming like Mastercam and Surfcam. I began designing using CATIA, AutoCAD and Solidwroks and now I master all of the above. School will teach you things that your shop won't. To begin writing a G-code program on a piece of paper using only a print and a calculator.. can you do that? can you 3D model an idea and take it down into a cokmplete product? SCHOOL will help you do all of those things, many things. Curently i have an associate's degree in machining, another one in CNC programing, I have two certificates of completion, spent a year learning design and I'm on my way towards my bachelor's in mechanical Engineering. You mentioned you want a shop someday... I allready have a shop bro. I can't run my shop full throttle because my focus is to earn my degree, to become an engineer. I have CNC equipment as well as conventional, I have inspection equipment and a few employees. I fully design my own products and the products of my customers, I progarm my equipment, train my employees, give custom quotes... anything u can imagine. I work, I go to school and i run my shop! I work at a prestigious company, Northrop Grumman. I swear we make some of the most complicated hardware that is sent to space and in my job I don't see the same job twice a year, that's called experimental machinist. I never, EVER tell how good I am or how much I have accomplished.
Help out the new guy
say THANK YOU to the guy sweeping yor chips away
look presentable every day at your work place
Talk clear to your boss and be honest
all the small things are what make huge differences. I tell no one at work i own a shop exept 3 of them. Sounds like you need some schoolwork to do and you were lucky to land on a company that has helped you but BE INDEPENDENT, EDUCATE YOURSELF!
So here you are with your thread "Where do I stand" :nutter:
The person who has that answer is YOU and YOU alone
I don't even know why you posted this here.
my best advice is go to school
learn as much as you can to be independent and to own a shop someday
learn a little of everything that you will have in your shop

With all that said here are your two pats in the back
oh wait, no school?
... nah, forget it, let me hav'em back.
-Andres
 
Andres nice reply and i applaud you on your achievements. I would love to be in your position someday. As for school there is really not alot of schooling available for machinist in my area I have taking what little is available...I would like to take some online classes but don't know if they are all they are cracked up to be. I don't want to get into the engineer aspect of the trade as dumb as that my sound. If you know of any sources of education please inform me..thats part of the reason i posted this the other is because like I said i have no one to lean on and want to know from more experienced machinist out there what areas i need or could use improvement in. Thanks again
Lukus-
 
The big question is what do you want to do from now on. right after high school I wanted to be a 3D animator... I was pretty good at drawing cartoons, people, etc. All tough i knew machining was available, my focus was on animation but there was no school that offered it so I took machining in college since I was working for a machine shop. One assiciate's degree and 5 years later, i knew that as much as I could machine parts I had no skills on how to design. Design is not just pake parts and make them work well... you have to know the strenghts of materials, what its the purpose, different elements of joints, pulleys and so on. I used to question "Why Stainless and not Titanium? why do they need high tolerances on certain features? Why do they want that surface so rough?" Now I'm beginning to understand all those questions. part of me wants to be an engineer and the other part wants to look at the financial aspects, design work, management, budgent and things like that that I will use with my shop. everyday I want to learn more, to find what it is that attracts my attention. my passion is working with my hands, to work on something physical that must do "something" to my advntage. It's a tough decision man, whenever I take those calculus and physics courses I ask myself I I really want to continue... there are times that I want to quit but hey.. I just keep trying. I'm simply giving you a heads up since we have so much in common. What worked best for me was the suppor that I had in school. there were plenty people that simply wouldn't teach me... job security I guess but I'd take those questions to school and more than one peope were willing to help. think about what you really want to do and work for it.
So get off from the daily routine and take the world by hail and storm
...You've got what it takes
-Andres
 
Going on seven years, and you still don't know where to stand?
While running a cnc lathe, I usually stand at the back of the machine, because I can kinda see what's going on a little bit better from back there. You can't see a damn thing looking through the window with all of that coolant splashing around...and if something bad were to happen, youd more than likely be out of missile range from there, but still able to reach the oh shit switch....or you could stand over by the mill, or turn something on the manual lathe, or sit at your computer, and write the program for the next part. Heck if your running a cnc anything, you don't even have to stand at all. Find yourself a nice stool.
If you are running a manual lathe, you almost have to stand right in front of the carriage, though you can back up a bit in order to avoid the blue chips flying off at such high speeds....hate it when those things find their way down the back of my shirt:eek:
If you are operating a manual mill or drill, you kinda have to be off to one side or the other of the workpiece, as this is where the quill feed handle is located, as well as the x-axis power feed. You'll usually find yourself to the right side of the workpiece, though I have seen a few lefty drill presses.

In all actuality,Stay Where You Are!!! you are doing great, and it sounds as though before long, you won't have to stand at all. You can just kick back in your office, and tell your newfound prodigy what needs to be done.
:cheers:
Keep the chips flyin'
bluechipper
 








 
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