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Way Oil for Surface Grinder Ways?

Professor

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Natick, MA
I have been refurbishing a 1930's Reid 2-B surface grinder and recently reassembled it. The table rests on two ways - one v-shaped and the other flat. The ways are oiled by spring-loaded bobbins that reside in oil-filled wells.

Thinking that these are "ways" I first started with Vactra #4 way oil - the stuff I use on my Bridgeport. The way oil was so viscous I could hardly crank the table left and right. I cleaned out all that and replaced it with 90w gear lube (because that is what was in it when I got it). I can move it now but the table still does not glide - I'm cranking with mighty effort. It moves smoothly, only slowly.

So what should I be using? 10w-30 motor oil? 5w spindle oil? Something else?

LM
 

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Way lube / vactra is the corect lube, though I prefer vactra #2. The ways appear to be worn smooth, so there is no room for oil between the pieces.
JOHN Fahnestock
J&L Scraping Service Inc.
www.j-lscraping.com
 
I've been using Vacuoline 1409, pretty good sticky way oil but lets things slide quite well I think. I'm just not sure how good it would work in a surface grinder.
 
Can anyone find the really informative post about Vactra being reformulated some years ago, and the original formula being available under another name & product number?

There was some good discussion in there, something about the stickiness of Vactra being changed in response to the needs of the industry (Printing, IIRC) that buys the largest amount of the product.

I haven't found that post since the forum change, probably my clumsiness...

JRR
 
Newer formula is the Vacuoline 1409. was old vactra2.

I used Shell Tonna68 where I used to work but the Vacuoline appears to stick better.
 
I'm assuming you DID coat all of the surfaces with oil before reassembly correct? I see it has Turcite on the V's. Were there grooves wore into it? Wore through anywhere? Grit impregnates itself into the Turcite and keeps wearing the opposite side out. Another thing with Reids is if you tighten the table crossfeed too tight it will make the table move harder. Common mistake when people try to get all the slop out of the handles. How was it before you started? Kevin
 
Kevco, thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I did coat the ways with oil before assembling. And they ways and the oil wells were squeeky clean before oiling.

The ways do not seem unduly worn - in fact some of the old scraping still can be seen on the flat ways (which didn't show in the photo). There was, however, what I considered to be an annoying amount of slop in the handwheel when reversing directions. So when installing it I did tighten the chain until it just lifted off the undercarriage.

To check if it was too tight I just now tried losening the chain. It *may* be a little easier to move, but there is still a significant amount of drag and grinding anything will give me a tired arm for sure.

When I got it, I don't recall it dragging as much -- but then again, I didn't grind with it before tearing it down.
 
Newer formula is the Vacuoline 1409. was old vactra2.

I used Shell Tonna68 where I used to work but the Vacuoline appears to stick better.

That might be because the equivalent viscosity of Vactra2 would be Vacuoline 1405 rather than the 1409.

PS Jones & Shipman recommend the 1405 for the ways/hydraulic drive and 1409 for everything else on their 1400 grinders.
 
Oops. Brain fart:o.

The suggestion to try 1405 on the grinder's way lubricators probably still holds good though, For the very reason that it's only ISO32.

Should I admit at this point that my J&S grinder has actually got ISO46 hydraulic oil in its tank instead of the correct oil?
 
By looking at your photos I see the ways are worn smooth. This is part of the reason it takes so much effort to run the table. Smooth against smooth in linear bearings has too much surface. The surfece contact constitutes a large area of fluid shear whereas the usual mode is scraped surface against scrape surface. A scraped surface tends flat but is slightly undulating. The little islands contact each other only momentarily in semi-boundary mode lubrication. The dense and random distribution ensures smooth, low operating force operation and the net fluid shear forces are small. Here we enter the question of whether to scrape the ways back to intermittant bearing. Unless you have an experienced scraper hand to guide you through the steps I'd reccommend you don't try it.

A surface grinder grinds work parallel to the track of the ways. If the ways track flat, you grind flat. Most older grinders grind convex to some degree and since most work is acceptable is slightly out of flat I wouldn't worry about it. Your grinder is quite old and has enough wear to have gone through the original factory scraping.

If your grinder grinds flat enough for your purposes I suggest you use what used to be Vactra II and muscle up to the task of cranking the table back and forth. The guys that used to run those old armstrong surface grinders full time developed so they looked like fiddler crabs - one normal arm and one bulging with muscle.
 
The Parker Majestic I run was scraped just about a year ago. Although we increased the oil ports one size, it was a bit stiff when we first fired it up, but after running a couple of tanks of a 50/50 mix of Vactra 2 and spindle oil through it, it loosened up quite a bit.
 
Thats the best you'll do

To get the smoothest action on a manual grinder you need ball or roller ways.
You can buy "aftermarket" roller ways for your grinder but they are very pricy and, in my opinion, not worth it.
Keep it as is.
You can get work done with it.
Even with a roller table manual machine you will get bored cranking.
SM
 
If you call Mobile Oil they have quite a complete referance system to let you know what you need.Have all machine info and numbers ready when calling.
 
From my anecdotal knowledge of it, the reformulation of Vactra oils was to rid it of "tackificiers". That additive (sorry, I'm no chemical engineer) was meant for use in older manual lathes adnd mills to keep the way lube stuck onto vertical and/or inclined surfaces. Newer CNC machines with way "trucks" and older hand grinders need to work with ease, hence the deletion of the additive.

Additionally, in my experience with sliding headstock lathes and chuckers that use bar feeders or bar magazine loaders, we found that using "old standard" way lube in the bar feeders caused a lot of that suspension oil to be carried into the machine tool. With machines running cutting oils, the tackifiers caused a lot of heavy film build-up inside the machine by contaminating the cutting oils. Some build-up was in the splash areas of the cutting chamfer that allowed the oil to sit, some was left by the increased smoke of the contaminated oil, on things like the sight windows.

Hangsterfer Laboratories was very helpful in switching the shop over to better way lubes, and giving us a good additive for their cutting oils in the machine to bring the viscosity back once it had been thickened by too much way lube.

I'd check with Hangsterfer's for their recommendation on a way lube for a hand surface grinder. They're pricey, but have never steered me wrong.
 
Is this a sin?

First, let me thank all of you for your helpful advice. I've learned a lot from the responses.

Based on some of the comments that lighter oils had been used, I, again cleaned out the wells, wiped down the ways, and tried what I had on hand, some 10W-30 motor oil. The table now glides smoothly and cranks quite easily.

So, is there something wrong with continuing to use motor oil? I feel like I might be doing something immoral.:eek:
 
Switch to straight SAE30 non-detergent motor oil. You wouldn't want to be cleaning your machine every time you oiled it. :D
 
Funny, I was not going to admit i mix light spindle oil and #2 vactra for the X axis on my B & S #2 if someone else had not mentioned it first. The vactra is too thick & the table floats, the spindle oil is a little thin & I worry about wear. The mix seems to work fine.

For the Z axis (table in/out) I use straight #2 vactra. Anything lighter squeezes out too fast on the inverted V's.

My DoALL specifies a good "10wt hydraulic oil" which i what I use. The hydraulic system auto oils the ways. (Later models specify the hydraulic oil even more closely, apparently due to a change in seal materials)

smt
 
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I use Vactra 2 thinned with ATF for the table of my surface grinder.
The table was much to sticky with straight vactra.

--Doozer
 








 
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