What is the craziest markup that you have been quoted for a part?

jeffers · Jul 28, 2016

I recently acquired a 1954 Cincinnati Toolmaster that had a broken handwheel and was missing the quill lock.
I asked for a quote from the current supplier of parts for Cincinnati.
The quill assembly was $930!
The biggest shocker was that the 7" table handwheel was $4,971.00 !!! McMaster sell a 7" cast iron handwheel for $27.20:McMaster-Carr

That is a 18,275% markup!

The person I bought the mill off was kind enough to give me a replacement (non cincinnati) handwheel which I have now fitted at no cost.

Other parts I priced while good to know they exist are beyond the realms of reality for a 1954 machine too.

Does anyone pay these prices???

awander · Jul 28, 2016

If the parts are out of production, and scarce, you may get someone who wants an original part, and will pay those prices.

If you just want to make the machine functional, obviously, you don't need to pay any more than you did.

The real problem would be if you needed a casting or some other part that could not be easily made or substituted for.

Monarchist · Jul 28, 2016

jeffers said:
I recently acquired a 1954 Cincinnati Toolmaster that had a broken handwheel and was missing the quill lock.
I asked for a quote from the current supplier of parts for Cincinnati.
The quill assembly was $930!
The biggest shocker was that the 7" table handwheel was $4,971.00 !!! McMaster sell a 7" cast iron handwheel for $27.20:McMaster-Carr

That is a 18,275% markup!

The person I bought the mill off was kind enough to give me a replacement (non cincinnati) handwheel which I have now fitted at no cost.

Other parts I priced while good to know they exist are beyond the realms of reality for a 1954 machine too.

Does anyone pay these prices???

I doubt that even government agencies pay the handwheel one.

A simple explanation may be behind it though. Some admin munchkin digs out the drawings, sends them out for bid, gets back a quite-reasonable pattern charge, plus a quite-reasonable minimum from a foundry. Then there is an even more reasonable finishing cost in shop hours - hand work, not CNC.

"Quite reasonable" if you were going to amortize those costs, plus metal and finishing per-unit, over 500 to 5,000 parts.

Which is no longer the case, volume-wise. ONE was asked for.

Admin munchkin, of course, has prolly never laid eyes on the mill, has no klew how outrageous it sounds.

All they've done is run the numbers, added a standard markup, onpassed the info, picked up their next task and moved-on.

Meanwhile, one can find all manner of right-decent generic handwheels from those who traffic in them as stock piece-parts for 'whatever' needs handwheels, new or repair. Their rice-bowl (or curry..), and they are reasonably competitive at it.

Factory Munchkin dasn't have cause to know or care, let alone go-find and then also vet it as a substitute with 'Engineering'. So we must do. ELSE s**t blood.

Bill

jeffers · Jul 28, 2016

Yes, but this was a part in stock!

Monarchist · Jul 28, 2016

jeffers said:
Yes, but this was a part in stock!

Well... at that sort of 'stud fee' we shall expect you to produce a Colt that can win the Kentucky Derby...

Birthing it will take yer mind off the pain of the 'servicing' anyway.. (I did say s**t blood?)

That was no handwheel. It's a STEERING wheel, and they mean to 'drive you home' with its supporting shaft.

Look up FIFO/LIFO, and 'current-market' replacement cost calculations to inventory .... if you still CARE how the bean-counters get such numbers.

I surely do not. Set up the lathe & rotab, turn and mill the bugger from solid for less.

Bill

Rudd · Jul 28, 2016

back about 1990 I was working in a place that an office full of gen-u-wine IBM 286 computers. It was a gov't agency, no money for new machines, but money for repairs was available. One of the machines ate the motherboard. I called up IBM about a new motherboard, quoted something like 2500 bux. The guy seemed absolutely shocked when I told him I could drive into the next town, by a 386 board for around 250.

It wasn't really my job description, but I had a pretty good run of sticking 386 boards in those boxes - as long as the property tag on the outside of the box didn't change, all was well.

Monarchist · Jul 28, 2016

Rudd said:
back about 1990 I was working in a place that an office full of gen-u-wine IBM 286 computers. It was a gov't agency, no money for new machines, but money for repairs was available. One of the machines ate the motherboard. I called up IBM about a new motherboard, quoted something like 2500 bux. The guy seemed absolutely shocked when I told him I could drive into the next town, by a 386 board for around 250.

It wasn't really my job description, but I had a pretty good run of sticking 386 boards in those boxes - as long as the property tag on the outside of the box didn't change, all was well.

Must have hung a dozen of the 10 MHz Ackermann Digital 'Number Smasher' 8086/8087 conversion boards into our 8088 MB before moving-on to 386-16 double-sigma mainboards. Ran one of those for 'a while' liquid cooled @ 40 MHz 'til 5 gallons of isopropanol had been sucked downstream and out an open window.

Smoked databases instead of cigarettes in those days.

Bill

bruceg · Jul 28, 2016

All wheelchair parts. Crazy high. $25000 to $30000 & up for nice chair. $400 wheels, $1400 motors, $750 tilt motors, $175 arm rest. On & on

ewlsey · Jul 28, 2016

In many cases, the folks selling parts of antique machines have no parts in stock. All they have is some drawings that they can use to have someone make the part.

Take your hand wheel for example. They don't have one on the shelf. They probably sold out within a few years of ending production. But, they have a drawing. All they need is someone to make the pattern, cast the part, machine it, machine and assemble the contoured handle, pack and ship. No problem at all, but it's sure not cheap.

Some machines changed very little over the years. I know you can get about any part you want for a Blanchard grinder going back to WWII. Same with Bridgeports and some engine lathes.

On the CNC side, Fadal is one of the best examples. They were super simple machines with lot's of off the shelf components. Mechanically those machines were very similar from the late 80s up to whenever they stopped making them (mid 2000s I think). You can buy parts from Mag and a bunch of other sources.

Maybe someday machine tools will have a resurgence like all those crappy muscle cars from the 60s and 70s. You can build a whole Mustang or Chevelle without a single original part.

JST · Jul 28, 2016

bruceg said:
All wheelchair parts. Crazy high. $25000 to $30000 & up for nice chair. $400 wheels, $1400 motors, $750 tilt motors, $175 arm rest. On & on

No problem, the insurance is paying............

That's the thought there. Even with the "medical markup" that's a lot. And it's NOT a case of a "one-off", they make quite a few of them.

steve45 · Jul 28, 2016

We had a Lear jet in the shop once for a fuel gauge replacement, IIRC. The instrument wasn't too bad, under $1000. But the core charge was $15,000. They REALLY wanted the old one back!

Monarchist · Jul 28, 2016

steve45 said:
We had a Lear jet in the shop once for a fuel gauge replacement, IIRC. The instrument wasn't too bad, under $1000. But the core charge was $15,000. They REALLY wanted the old one back!

You think that was a tad anal, yah shudda dealt with W-7's & W-31's for MIM-14()..

Mind.. they didn't so much want those 'back' as to hopefully never have to "leave home" in the first place.

Sharknet · Jul 29, 2016

steve45 said:
We had a Lear jet in the shop once for a fuel gauge replacement, IIRC. The instrument wasn't too bad, under $1000. But the core charge was $15,000. They REALLY wanted the old one back!

I work on mainly 1930's aircraft now, British stuff. My eyes still water at the cost of parts....

JRIowa · Jul 29, 2016

jeffers said:
I recently acquired a 1954 Cincinnati Toolmaster that had a broken handwheel and was missing the quill lock.

Why? Did you SAVE this machine?
JR

jeffers · Jul 29, 2016

JRIowa said:
Why? Did you SAVE this machine?
JR

I am trying to, it has sat outside for a couple of years but does not appear to have a lot of wear, I did not want a foreign mill, very few vintage mills would fit my bulkhead entry and basement height

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

John Welden · Jul 29, 2016

jeffers said:
I recently acquired a 1954 Cincinnati Toolmaster that had a broken handwheel and was missing the quill lock.
I asked for a quote from the current supplier of parts for Cincinnati.
The quill assembly was $930!
The biggest shocker was that the 7" table handwheel was $4,971.00 !!! McMaster sell a 7" cast iron handwheel for $27.20:McMaster-Carr

That is a 18,275% markup!

The person I bought the mill off was kind enough to give me a replacement (non cincinnati) handwheel which I have now fitted at no cost.

Other parts I priced while good to know they exist are beyond the realms of reality for a 1954 machine too.

Does anyone pay these prices???

You are insane.

You should feel very lucky parts are even available for a 50's machine. $930 for a quill assembly is cheap.

You bought a machine that's been sitting outside for two years? Really? Someone should have paid you to haul it away for scrap.

jeffers · Jul 29, 2016

John Welden said:
You are insane.

You should feel very lucky parts are even available for a 50's machine. $930 for a quill assembly is cheap.

You bought a machine that's been sitting outside for two years? Really? Someone should have paid you to haul it away for scrap.

My budget for my tool addiction is much lower than yours!
Part of the pleasure is getting a reportedly $20,000 machine in 1954 for $400 back in a working condition and that it will cut a Chinese import in half without hesitation!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

awake · Jul 29, 2016

Is this the same crowd that chews up anyone who buys an import machine when there is so much old American iron available ... ? Is this the same crowd that gets upset at the culture of disposability when something could be repaired and restored to full function?

For my part, kudos to the OP for saving and restoring this machine!

JST · Jul 29, 2016

If the "quill assembly" includes the spindle and bearings, etc, it could be a decent deal at a grand. Try pricing just the bearings to OEM spec....... You'll be at least most of the way there with no further parts involved.

if you actually meant "quill LOCK assembly", then the "deal" gets much worse fast. That would be more in line with their pricing as I understand it. And in line with your 4 grand handwheel.

coolhand03 · Jul 29, 2016

I recently got a quote from Mori for some 4mm brass compression sleeves, just out of curiosity. (knowing they would be marked up big time) quote came back at $7.00ea!! I found them for 35 cents each elsewhere and had a chuckle.

Another time, I ordered an oil motor from Mori for one of our NV5000's. Next day shipping.
They drop shipped from their supplier, and low and behold, the invoice was in the box!
Mori charged $2200 for that oil motor, and payed under $700.
That's how I discovered All World Machinery.
I've ordered many parts and other obscure lubricants etc. from them since.
No direct affiliation, just a happy customer.
They supply many machine manufacturers with "proprietary" parts.

What is the craziest markup that you have been quoted for a part?

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