What is the D1 camlock spindle nose taper ratio?.

SAG 180 · Feb 18, 2017

If I convert the D1 series camlock taper angle of 7 degrees, 7 minutes, 30 seconds to decimal, I get 7.125 degrees.
TAN(7.125) degrees comes out to 0.124999, or 1/8th approx. Is 1:8 the correct radius taper for D1 series camlocks?.

Monarchist · Feb 18, 2017

SAG 180 said:
If I convert the D1 series camlock taper angle of 7 degrees, 7 minutes, 30 seconds to decimal, I get 7.125 degrees.
TAN(7.125) degrees comes out to 0.124999, or 1/8th approx. Is 1:8 the correct radius taper for D1 series camlocks?.

Someone must have done this already, but I haven't seen it. Your approach seems reasonable.

How hard would it be to assume a win, cut a test item, see how well it blues-up to known-good?

RC99 · Feb 18, 2017

According to an online right angle triangle calculator, the decimal angle of the adjacent side 1 and the opposite side 8 (or the other way around) is is 7.12502

SAG 180 · Feb 18, 2017

RC99 said:
According to an online right angle triangle calculator, the decimal angle of the adjacent side 1 and the opposite side 8 (or the other way around) is is 7.12502

Didn't think to try that, it does look like it's pretty darn close: ArcTan 1/8 gives 7.125016. Blueing it as Monarchist suggests will be painful at the moment the iron casting and the iron faceplate would be 35Kgs / 70 lbs. I'll set the compound to 1:8 and then sweep the spindle taper with a dial indicator to see how it compares. Might have to make a test taper after all: I have five female tapers to test it on.

Monarchist · Feb 18, 2017

SAG 180 said:
I'll set the compound to 1:8 and then sweep the spindle taper with a dial indicator to see how it compares.

That's a right b***h to get a clear reading from, short as it is, plus a bit of wear and the odd ding.

Been fortunate so far (tiny D1-3) to have been able to find used or new ready-made backplates if not OEM direct-mounts.

Following your project with interest as one - for a presently D1-4 Burnerd Multisize I shall have to fab.. and female at that.

WHHJR · Feb 18, 2017

What is the end use? If I need a starting point for an adapter I will likely start here; Home page not USA but most of the work is already done.

2¢

Monarchist · Feb 18, 2017

WHHJR said:
What is the end use? If I need a starting point for an adapter I will likely start here; Home page not USA but most of the work is already done.

2¢

Haven't had a dodgy Shars plate yet, half a dozen or more bought. Their studs are metric arse-ended, and I stock spares now.

I prefer older US made plates when I can FIND such in decent condition. Add new studs, inch, not metric.

If not inherently a tad stronger, as I believe they actually are, I at least have greater trust in the proven US supplier of those studs than no-namers somewhere on the landmass of PRC who had the lowest bid that last batch.

johnoder · Feb 18, 2017

SAG 180 said:
If I convert the D1 series camlock taper angle of 7 degrees, 7 minutes, 30 seconds to decimal, I get 7.125 degrees.
TAN(7.125) degrees comes out to 0.124999, or 1/8th approx. Is 1:8 the correct radius taper for D1 series camlocks?.

If you have taper attach, its 3" per foot on dia

SAG 180 · Feb 18, 2017

johnoder said:
If you have taper attach, its 3" per foot on dia

So it's exactly 1:8 taper on the radius.
Thanks John, as always, your help is appreciated.

This is for a D1-5 chuck adapter, D1-5's aren't exactly common over here and freight gets expensive from the USA. I already have spare D1-5 pins and I have a slab of grey cast iron 1.4" thick that I'll machine to fit a 10" Rohm 4 jaw scroll chuck: it's one of those chuck that has two keys, one for the scroll and a second one for centring the independent jaws. I'll use the dividing head on the mill to drill the holes for the pins.

Monarchist · Feb 18, 2017

SAG 180 said:
This is for a D1-5 chuck adapter, D1-5's aren't exactly common over here

5's are not common ANYWHERE, AFAIK, 4's and 6's dominate. This work would be harder than average to avoid, most continents.

Good fortune with it!

rimcanyon · Feb 18, 2017

Monarchist said:
That's a right b***h to get a clear reading from, short as it is, plus a bit of wear and the odd ding.

Been fortunate so far (tiny D1-3) to have been able to find used or new ready-made backplates if not OEM direct-mounts.

Following your project with interest as one - for a presently D1-4 Burnerd Multisize I shall have to fab.. and female at that.

Bill, have you gone through the exercise of bluing in your collection? And then using plastigage to check those that had questionable readings? The D1-3 fit is a bitch to get right. The way I understand the correct fit, the flat on the back of the spindle tooling should make contact at the point where the taper locks. A well fitted chuck will not fall off the spindle when the cam locks are released, it takes a hit with your hand to loosen the chuck.

I posted an article on the Monarch forum at least a decade ago about checking and correcting my collection of spindle tooling. You can read the article, but the upshot is that even new tooling often does not fit well, and to correct the fit you may need to machine the flat, or the taper. Every .001" of clearance you have in the taper requires about .008" to be removed from the flat.

Dave

rimcanyon · Feb 18, 2017

Monarchist said:
That's a right b***h to get a clear reading from, short as it is, plus a bit of wear and the odd ding.

Been fortunate so far (tiny D1-3) to have been able to find used or new ready-made backplates if not OEM direct-mounts.

Following your project with interest as one - for a presently D1-4 Burnerd Multisize I shall have to fab.. and female at that.

Bill, have you gone through the exercise of bluing in your collection? And then using plastigage to check those that had questionable readings? The D1-3 fit is a bitch to get right. The way I understand the correct fit, the flat on the back of the spindle tooling should make contact at the point where the taper locks. A well fitted chuck will not fall off the spindle when the cam locks are released, it takes a hit with your hand to loosen the chuck.

I posted an article on the Monarch forum at least a decade ago about checking and correcting my collection of spindle tooling. You can read the article, but the upshot is that even new tooling often does not fit well, and to correct the fit you may need to machine the flat, or the taper. Every .001" of clearance you have in the taper requires about .008" to be removed from the flat.

Dave

CalG · Feb 18, 2017

D series and A series tapers are the same.! So just use an A ! ;-)

Monarchist · Feb 18, 2017

rimcanyon said:
Bill, have you gone through the exercise of bluing in your collection? And then using plastigage to check those that had questionable readings? The D1-3 fit is a bitch to get right. The way I understand the correct fit, the flat on the back of the spindle tooling should make contact at the point where the taper locks. A well fitted chuck will not fall off the spindle when the cam locks are released, it takes a hit with your hand to loosen the chuck.

I posted an article on the Monarch forum at least a decade ago about checking and correcting my collection of spindle tooling. You can read the article, but the upshot is that even new tooling often does not fit well, and to correct the fit you may need to machine the flat, or the taper. Every .001" of clearance you have in the taper requires about .008" to be removed from the flat.

Dave

I haven't been that careful - yet.

Read your thread - and others - a few years ago, and the take-away that I have so far been satisfied with IS the need to bump the nose-art to get it to release.

Mind, both 10EE came in the door naked, so the majority of what gets onto the spindle is brand-new now, not used.

All but one faceplate are used, but save for one chuck, where chucks are not new, their backplates are.

I have new camlocks to install in the spindle before - or concurrent with - going into finer-granularity checking of the taper & flat. Spindle will first have come out for new bearings - and the installation of that nice shifter fork, (finally).

Makes sense that should be rolled into one 'project', but I am not to where I am ready to do without the lathe just yet. We are into tachometer feedback test plotting and scheming now.

Good news is that besides the second 10EE, I also have a complete spare spindle, sans forward bearings.

Heavy bugger, but still - there is my sort-of-portable 'master' without having to fab one just for the purpose.

SIP6A · Feb 18, 2017

SAG 180 said:
So it's exactly 1:8 taper on the radius.
Thanks John, as always, your help is appreciated.

This is for a D1-5 chuck adapter, D1-5's aren't exactly common over here and freight gets expensive from the USA. I already have spare D1-5 pins and I have a slab of grey cast iron 1.4" thick that I'll machine to fit a 10" Rohm 4 jaw scroll chuck: it's one of those chuck that has two keys, one for the scroll and a second one for centring the independent jaws. I'll use the dividing head on the mill to drill the holes for the pins.

Sag 180

I have the ASME standard for the D series chuck backs and spindle noses. I would be glad to copy the relevant page that you need. I got it when needing a back for my 10ee. After studying the standard I decide to take the cowards way out an just buy one.To do the job correctly you need to make a master and a indicating plug gage so that the backplate and taper lock up at the same time. With a little patience you could blue one up as you only want to make one.

If you want this information I need your mailing address.

Todd

SAG 180 · Feb 19, 2017

Thanks very much for the generous offer Todd, another forum member has been in touch and emailed a detailed scan of two pages of drawings and dimensions of the D series camlock. I will be actually using the lathe I intend to make the camlock adapter plate for so my plan was to bolt the adapter blank to my lathe faceplate and make some index markings so I always remove and attach the faceplate to the same relative location after blueing it to the lathe camlock taper.

Thanks again,
Mark

SIP6A said:
Sag 180

I have the ASME standard for the D series chuck backs and spindle noses. I would be glad to copy the relevant page that you need. I got it when needing a back for my 10ee. After studying the standard I decide to take the cowards way out an just buy one.To do the job correctly you need to make a master and a indicating plug gage so that the backplate and taper lock up at the same time. With a little patience you could blue one up as you only want to make one.

If you want this information I need your mailing address.

Todd

Peter. · Feb 19, 2017

I have made several. The taper is shallow enough so it has a bit of travel between making contact and seating against the spindle face - much in the same way as you can set a morse taper bit by hand then visibly watch it move in further if you use a soft faced tool to set it tighter. Within my collection of camlock attachments I have some which fall off when you release the pins and some which need a bump with the hand - and that includes the factory items.

The tricky part is not going too far when cutting the taper. A few tenths too loose and you have to take a load off the face to make up for it,

Clive603 · Feb 19, 2017

Peter. said:
The tricky part is not going too far when cutting the taper. A few tenths too loose and you have to take a load off the face to make up for it,

Faced with a similar D1-5 issue I proposed to make my master gauge a bit over length both ways on a true running shank with a close fitting sliding sleeve having suitable locking arrangements. Plan was to trim the front of the overlong gauge until it seated properly in my "best" faceplate with a few thou gap at the front then lock the sleeve at a suitable measured gap between it and the faceplate. I was going to use a fairly large one to suit one of the duplicated sizes of gauge blocks in my collection.

I was going to make the backplates too thick and run the taper in a bit too far. Measuring the gap between sleeve and backplate face when the gauge was inserted would give how much to take off the face. Facing off before making the measurement using the micrometer bed stop to set the saddle position then using a gauge block to reset the micrometer stop to the new position needed to get the right depth seemed an accurate way of going about things.

In the even I lucked into some backplates at very attractive priced so never got to try the method.

Clive

What is the D1 camlock spindle nose taper ratio?.

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Attachments

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Similar threads