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12-09-2009, 03:43 PM #1
What is the difference between Mobil DTE Light and Mobile DTE 24?
They seem to be two very similar products, the descriptions are similar but not identical. My lathe headstock calls for DTE 24 or similar, I have DTE Light. From the descriptions, DTE Light would seem more appropriate, maybe it makes no difference. But there must be some reason for them to produce both?
12-09-2009, 04:00 PM #2
Brief Product Descriptions has this to say about DTE 24, 25 and 26:
Mobil DTE 24, 25 and 26 oils were developed to meet the requirements of modern high output hydraulic pumps. In addition to the desirable properties of DTE Named Oils, these oils provide added high pressure anti wear properties
12-09-2009, 04:15 PM #3
As John noted, numbered series have anti-wear additives added and *may* not be suitable if there are friction clutches in the system. Which is probably pretty rare in a lathe headstock anyway.
12-09-2009, 04:16 PM #4
FYI the big companies have gr8 websites and even have engineers to answer questions. Good luck lately w/ 3M- Loctite and a while ago Mobil. Sorry I can't answer your question but I bet they can.
12-09-2009, 05:59 PM #5
I'm not sure what "ant-wear properties" means. In the DTE Light description it says, "This product series is recommended for continous service in the lubrication of plain and rolling bearings and parallel shaft gearing." That does sound a lot like a lathe headstock to me. On the other hand DTE 24 says for use "In systems containing gears and bearings".
12-10-2009, 02:49 AM #6
Best guess is the blend includes some sort of temporary chemical / electrostatic bonding gubbins which locks onto the metal surfaces to provide a bit more protection should the hydrodynamic oil film briefly break down at any point. The gubbins has to get wiped off before metal to metal contact happens which takes more pressure than that needed to break down the oil film. Because the stuff is floating around in the oil it continually rebuilds its coating. I gather that there is an element of this sort of behaviour in all good oils anyway.
12-10-2009, 10:32 AM #7
The numbered series will provide better wear protection on gear boxes etc. Why the difference? Cost! If you're just filling hydraulic systems, you may feel that you don't need the added protection. If you've got a VTL with a gearbox the size of a large desk and thrust bearings that cost $40K and take 6 months to get, the added cost is worth it.
At home, I keep DTE 24 & 25 on hand.
12-10-2009, 02:05 PM #8
12-10-2009, 06:35 PM #9
Reading between the advertising copy in the technical data sheet ("high pressure, extreme this, super that, cures cancer, etc.") it seems like 24 is targeted for high pressure hydraulic systems, not so much at gear boxes and rolling bearings.
Guess I am going to have to call and have them explain themselves.
12-10-2009, 07:17 PM #10
The named series were Mobil's lowest cost general purpose gear and bearing oils. They would be the first choice for a big old machine that looses a lot of oil. But it doesn't matter. I talked with Mobil last week and they are completely discontinuing the named series and recommend using the 20 series as a direct replacement. Probably not that many simple old machines out there anymore. I think the 20 series additives make it suitable for hydraulic systems which would have more sliding metal components and tighter tolerances than an old gearbox. I think Chevron Regal R&O oils are the same as the Mobil named series if that is what you want.
06-22-2012, 08:10 PM #11
06-25-2012, 06:56 AM #12
06-25-2012, 07:13 AM #13
Anti wear aditives are esential for components that slide against each other.
Swashplated hydraulic pumps, bent axis hydraulic motors, hypoid gears etc.
Bad for wet clutches, wetbrakes etc.
06-25-2012, 09:26 AM #14
Repeating the mantra - any oil is better than no oil. In a pinch, use anything that's close and replace it when you can find the right stuff. Machine tools don't explode like a Star Trek control panel if you use slightly the wrong oil. Just trying to de-fuse what I preceived to be rising contention.
My last extremity machine tool oil is hydrauic oil then pukey red ATF. Both work well with clutches and seals of all descriptions. Both as oil change residues are non-harmful to most replacement oils. Both are available everywhere in the world except maybe up jungle rivers.
This does not answer the OP question. I suggest the Mobil website - like here:
Mobil DTE Oil Named Series
Mobil DTE 20 Series
06-25-2012, 10:15 AM #15
Plain R&O oils are available as "turbine" oils.
06-25-2012, 11:02 AM #16
06-25-2012, 01:15 PM #17
Many of the plants I work in are using them interchangeably. I meant that "turbine" oils are zinc free. They commonly are only in plain bearing applications, no gears or rolling element bearings, no sliding surfaces. Myself, I would go with the antiwear oils but in the event that there is a cluth or brake issue these would work.
06-25-2012, 01:27 PM #18
I put DTE-24 in the headstock of the Colchester 15 x 50 I have, and it has mechanical friction clutches for forward and reverse - I have seen no slippage problems with this oil....
I have also put it in the transmission of my SAG 12 with electric friction clutches, but it is not up and running yet, so I cannot comment on that application yet.
06-26-2012, 11:15 AM #19
switched from mobil over to chevron machine oils. less than 1/2 the price and can buy it locally .
07-13-2012, 05:46 PM #20
- The DTE Named Series IS NOT Mobil’s “lowest cost” oil. In fact DTE Light is about 10% more expensive than DTE 24, even in 55 gallon drums. Both oils are made from turbine quality feed stock. They differ primarily in the additives used.
- The DTE Names Series HAS NOT been discontinued. It was available in December 2009 when Mad Machinist posted this and it is available today. AFIK, Mobil has no plans to discontinue it.
- Mobil DOES NOT recommend DTE 24 as a direct replacement for DTE Light. (Call their lube tech support line at 1-800-443-9966 and ask them yourself.)
Possibly he’s confused on the last two points. The Vactra Named Series was discontinued and the DTE Named Series is the recommended replacement.
The DTE 20 series, which includes DTE 24, is formulated as hydraulic oil. The main purpose of hydraulic oil is to move things via hydraulic force, be it the cylinder on a backhoe or an industrial robot. According to the Exxon-Mobil website, the 20 series “…were developed in conjunction with the major builders to meet the stringent requirements of severe hydraulic systems using high pressure, high output pumps as well as handling the critical requirements of other hydraulic system components such as close clearance servo-valves and the high accuracy numerically controlled (NC) machine tools.” The two companies they mention by name are Denison (a Parker Company) and Vickers (an Eaton Company); both market high end hydraulic cylinders, servo valves, etc. These components use special alloys that require protection by special additives in the oil. The NC machine tools they referr to here are probably things like industrial robots, not CNC machining centers.
Hydraulic oil has to operate in very different conditions than gear oil and has special additives to handle the service. For example, a retracting hydraulic cylinder carries minute amounts of contaminants back into the cylinder where it can contaminate the oil; special additives work to neutralize the contamination. Hydraulic systems usually have filters to remove particles from the oil and this typically means that additives are used to suspend the particles until they reach the filter.
Additives aren’t necessarily compatible with one another and may work at cross purposes. For example, the additives in DTE 24 inhibit it's ability to separate from water; DTE Light, on the other hand, has excellent water separation properties.
I’m sure DTE 24 is dandy for what it’s designed to do: operate under pressure and protect internal hydraulic components with exotic metallurgy. It has special anti-wear additives designed to meet those needs.
DTE Light is better at other things: better anti-foaming, much better water separation, better rust and oxidation protection. Foaming can definitely be a problem with a high speed spindle bearing, i.e. 10EE running at 4000 RPM.
For a machine tool spindle with no circulating pump and filter to clean the oil, the last thing you want is oil designed to suspend particles; you want the particles to settle harmlessly to the bottom of the sump. You also want water to separate completely. You don’t want water and debris constantly circulating though precision bearings. The only reason that I can think of for a machine tool manufacturer to specify DTE 24 over DTE Light in a spindle is some sort of alloys used that require the special additives. Obviously, if DTE 24 is specified, that's what you use.
Mobil DTE Oil Named Series
Mobil DTE 20 Series