re painting what to use

Hi all need to paint some of my old tools Power hacksaw ,drill press etc have tryed por 15 great .What is your thaughts on what type of paint to use .I dont want to see the coolant destroy it in short time thanks to all otpco Canberra Australia

Use anything as long as it's BLUE.

Well, there are other threads that talk about coolant-resistant paint. Check out Paint Thread

That said, the experts suggest a two-part (catalyzed) polyurethane enamel. Two problems with the optimal solution:

First, I just priced Polane SprayFil (a primer that's thick enough to fill in metal imperfections) and Polane Plus HS, available here in the States from Sherwin Williams. In minimum quantities, it will run me about USD600 for the primer, paint, thinner, and catalyst! But if you have ten machine tools, this is probably the stuff.

Anybody interested in buying a quart of spray-fil, a quart of paint (would be a teal hue), and catalyst for about $180?

Next, the two-part polyurethanes like polane or Imron (Dupont) require an air mask and spray booth (or at least a rural location, a windy day, and a canister-type gas mask.) The stuff is really noxious.

So I think a lot of folks end up using rattle-can enamel. Prime, coat with low-visc bondo, sand, reprime, and paint.

Don't know how long it will last under a barrage of coolant.

Jim

First, I just priced Polane SprayFil (a primer that's thick enough to fill in metal imperfections) and Polane Plus HS, available here in the States from Sherwin Williams. In minimum quantities, it will run me about USD600 for the primer, paint, thinner, and catalyst! But if you have ten machine tools, this is probably the stuff.

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I don't know where you went but this is certainly not the case. I just repainted my series 2 mill. This is the 3rd machine I have done in 2 years.
Polane SprayFil is $51.51/gallon.
Polane primer sealer is $46.96/gallon.
Polane K84 reducer is $20.33/gallon.
Custom mixed polane color is $149/gallon.
Stock colors are about $60/gallon.
Catalyst is $29.02/quart.
You have to go to a Sherwin Williams industrial store. Not a retail store.

A new carbon respirator mask is sufficient to spray with.

Scott

Polaraligned,

The way I add it up, your startup costs are about $360, if you get a custom color. $240 if not. STill high, but less than what I was quoted. I got quotes of

Polane SprayFil is $74.33 (not 51.51)/gallon.
Polane K84 reducer is $35.45 (not 20.33)/gallon.
Custom mixed polane color is $185.74 (not 149)/gallon.
Catalyst is $84.30 (not 29.02)/quart.

So for me, this was 74.33 for spray-fil, I was just going to sand it down and respray it (no sealer primer), 185.74 for a gallon of color matched, 256 for a gallon (about as cheap as 3 quarts) of catalyst, and 35.45 for a gallon of thinner (MAK). About $550.

If your quotes are recent, can you send me an email telling me what store you got quoted the prices you listed? I need to check with your store, then go back to my store and shame 'em, or perhaps see if I can buy through my local university at a discount.

It sounds like this is the primo stuff, so I'd LIKE to use it, but the expense as I was quotes was out of this world.

Thanks for the info,

Jim

This is on no special account. I am just a walk in customer. I used my business name for the bill. I would get the same price if I just used my personal name.

Thanks very much, Polaraligned.

Guess I look and sound like I just fell off the turnip truck when I spoke with my Philly SW folks. Shucks. But now I am armed with this info - photographic evidence! - I will use it to smite the evil overquoters. Or buy in NJ.

By the way, I recently corresponded with a guy on ebay, he was selling some very nicely made Atlas accessories, and the pic of his lathe showed a beautiful finish. He told me that he used Martin Senour Tough Coat Heavy Duty Enamel, in Cascade Green #109-6. Acknowledges that it won't top a catalyzed finish in peformance, but the price is better and one can use a brush.

He had a very interesting observation about doing a "show car" restoration on an SB9 a while back. It turned out so nice, he hesitated to use it even though it was his best lathe.

Let me see if I can get a better price on the two-part, and I will then be forced to decide.

Jim

I paid the same prices as Jim at the Sherwin Williams industrial store in Austin (about $50/gallon) for the Polane HS Plus. Based on his receipt, Jim is using Polane B. I honestly don't know the difference -- they're both 2-part, polyurethane epoxies. I *think* Polane HS Plus is the only one that comes in "custom" colors -- i.e., what SW calls any color other than white, black, red or OSHA yellow.

What's interesting is that the catalyst for Polane B (V66V27) is half the price of the Polane HS Plus catalyst (V66V55), which retails for $60/quart. If you schmooze the manager he can give you a 20% discount at the counter, but you're still talking $50/quart out the door for the Polane HS Plus catalyst...

I didn't use the Polane SprayFil on my Clausing lathe, but I really wished that I had used some kind of spray Bondo -- it would have saved me a lot of work.

I've heard several people say the SprayFil is pretty soft though. I'm tearing down a Brown & Sharpe #5 Tool and Cutter Grinder I just acquired, and I'm going to try the Evercoat spray Bondo that Paula recommended.

I used the Evercoat polyester filler on my lathe, and it's outstanding -- very pliable and workable when it's soft, but hard as Devcon once it cures.

By the way, I highly recommend the extra hassle associated with a 2-part capitalized epoxy like Polane or Dupont Imron. When it cures, it's almost as hard as powercoat, and it's unbelievable resistant to lacquer thinner and acetone.

It's Scott, not Jim.

I use Polane B not the Polane HS. The HS is a high solids, low VOC version. No real need for it. My Polane B is custom mixed. It is Precision Tan which is a stock Polane B color. Problem is that the stock color comes only in flat. I had them mix it up in a gloss version. There are a few nice stock colors that are gloss. Your store should have a chart that you can have. (maybe your store charges for that too!!)
I filled in the worst stuff with Evercoat polyester glazing putty. Made to go on up to 1/8" thick. After sanding that down I used the SprayFil. Yes, it is soft. Maybe I would call it very soft. I just did a Series 2 BP and I can't imagine using something that would be harder to sand. I would never have gotten done, let alone had my sanity. On a smaller machine I might go for something harder.
The trick I use with the SprayFil is to apply 4 coats or so, let them dry overnight, then start sanding with 100 grit sandpaper until I start hitting casting. I then spray a light coat or two of SprayFil and sand that with 220. Knowing the SprayFil is soft, I intentionally try to keep it as thin as possible. If the casting is rough you may be better off hitting it with a right angle grinder with a 60 grit flap sanding disk to knock down the casting roughness.
Here is my Series 1 sprayed and partially assembled:



Scott

I haven't tried it but I reckon POR15 (available in Australia unlike the stuff the guys are talking about). It's a moisture hardening epoxy (single pack), oil and fuel resistant and fairly hard to resist chipping. The distributor is in Sydney.

POR15 is not UV stabalised but should be right in a workshop....colours are limited. Just GOOGLE POR15 AUSTRALIA.

Craig

Polaraligned,

Wow! Very attractive job on the finish.

Not that I'm a Sherwin-Williams rep or anything, but I think that Polane B might be a good choice (cheaper) for low-volume work. The HS stands for "High Solids", and lists lower VOC emissions as an advantage. Both B and HS are touted as "ideal for machine tools". HS has it's durability touted a little more, and it's film thickness is twice that of B. But if you are starting with spray-fil anyway you have some thickness.

The colors for Polane are at Polane Colors.

Best,
Jim

The Polane B has a solids content of about 22+ percent. The HS is about 58%. I can easily cover a machine in 2 coats that has been properly prepped with the primer/sealer. No need for the HS.

Scott

It's Scott, not Jim.

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Sorry, got your names backwards

I use Polane B not the Polane HS. The HS is a high solids, low VOC version. No real need for it. My Polane B is custom mixed. It is Precision Tan which is a stock Polane B color. Problem is that the stock color comes only in flat.

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I just re-read the Sherwin-Williams datasheets, and remembered why the Sherwin-Williams guy steered me to Polane HS Plus -- it's "high gloss," where Polane B is flat. I guess the more expensive catalyst has something to do with the high gloss.

The HS Plus really does look like glass when it's sprayed.

The coverage level doesn't really matter with the Polane, especially since the smallest quantity you can buy is a gallon. A gallon is enough for several machines, so unless you want to paint all the machines in your shop the same color...

The other Polane variants include Polane T, Polane 2.8, and Polane 2.8T Plus. The last one is some kind of EPA-compliant mix.

Jim: here are the datasheets, if you want to read through them:

Polane HS Plus:
http://www2.sherwin-williams.com/chemicalcoatings/dataPages/CC-D20.pdf

Polane B:
http://www2.sherwin-williams.com/chemicalcoatings/datapages/CC-D4.pdf

Good luck!

Robert

I just re-read the Sherwin-Williams datasheets, and remembered why the Sherwin-Williams guy steered me to Polane HS Plus -- it's "high gloss," where Polane B is flat. I guess the more expensive catalyst has something to do with the high gloss.

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That is not completely true Robert. It depends on which color Polane B you choose. Some are gloss and some are not. I did a 1969 BP in the Polane B stock color 7B Gray and it was gloss. $60/gallon.
My Polane color chart shows which are gloss and which are not. Unfortunately for me, the Precision Tan which I have used for 2 mills now is only stocked in flat. It does not make sense why some are gloss and some are not. Especially since you can reduce the gloss with the flattening paste made specificly for the Polane series. I see no reason to use the HS version. As I said before, you can get excellent coverage with 2 coats.
As for this stuff looking like glass, it just does not. It certainly does not flow out like automotive poly. It leaves more of an orange peel surface finish. Somewhere in the SW literature it even makes reference to this fact "How it helps hide surface imperfections."
I reduce it a little more than recommended and it produces a very nice finish, though it is no Imron.

Scott

As for this stuff looking like glass, it just does not. It certainly does not flow out like automotive poly. It leaves more of an orange peel surface finish.

I reduce it a little more than recommended and it produces a very nice finish, though it is no Imron.

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That's my point. The Polane HS Plus does look like glass. I've used Imron before too (on a '69 Camaro), and the HS Plus has the same high gloss as Imron.

From the Polane HS Plus Datasheet:

"Polane HS Plus is a two component coating providing high gloss, excellent exterior durability and resistance properties along with high volume solids and 2.8 VOC compliance. The single pigment colors are designed for intermixing to achieve great versatility in color matching capability."

From the Polane B Datasheet:

"Polane B Polyurethane Enamel is a full gloss, two package coating for use where high performance is required. This is ideal for metal, structural materials such as FRP, structural foams, ABS Plastic, SMC, nylon, and many other plastics and wood."

I've followed this thread with interest since I'm a novice painter but have now done two machine tools with Spray Fil and Polane B. I've had good success but there has been plenty of "discovery learning" along the way.....

I've not become adept at getting consistent surface finishes with Polane B, even using the same can of paint. Sometimes it flows out to a very nice gloss but often it dries with a considerable matt texture and I've not determined a pattern, such as coating thickness, amount of reducer, humidity, temperature, etc. It's not a major problem, just vexing for me since a smoother surface is better for cleaning machine tools after use. I may try reducing it a bit more next time as Scott suggests above.

I've found different SW dealers to have considerably different policies. I've only dealt with two, one in Tampa, FL and one here in Columbia, SC. This one is very flexible. Will often sell quarts vs. gallons, and do not differentiate between stock SW colors and custom mixed. Of course they can mix to a stock color but for them it is no easier than mixing to a provided sample since they don't actually stock the stock colors; prices are the same.

Recently I got a gallon of Spray Fil and asked if they could tint it to closely match the top coat. No problem and no additional cost - when I used it, I found it to match the color coat precisely.

And I'm not a big customer - just a walk-in who might spend a couple hundred dollars a year. Their prices are at or below what Scott shows above.

My latest project - Hardinge UM Hardinge UM -1 Caution: large files.

Jim

Beautiful job Jim!

I've not become adept at getting consistent surface finishes with Polane B, even using the same can of paint.

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The Polane HS Plus always comes out glossy, but I have the same consistency problems with orange peel. Sometimes I get the gun dialed-in and it comes out perfectly smooth, but other times I get bad orange peel. I think a large part of my problem is using the cheap Harbor Freight "Purple Gun" (their HVLP gun), but I also think that Polane in general is very sensitive to heat and humidity while it's curing, like you suggest.

I put on a coat last summer when it was nearly 100° in Austin, and although it still cured with a high gloss, it developed pinholes.

Since then, I never paint when it's over 90° in the shop, and I haven't had any problems with pinholes, but I'm still struggling to get a consistent finish.

I recently painted a machine with Dupoint Nasson 2-part synthetic enamel. Not a true urethane, but seems to provide a durable finish. There is no SW commercial store in my area, otherwise I would have used Polane.

My biggest complaint with the Nasson paint is like Jim S. was saying about the Polane: it's real hard to get a consistent smooth glossy finish. The Nasson paint, much like the Polane, is made for professional use...but heck, how hard can it be to mix properly and spray with decent competence???

I used the "slow" reducer, since it was 85-90 degrees when sprayed. But, it still seemed like the paint was flash drying too fast around the edges. By the time I came back across with another pass, the paint was leaving visible "trails". It's like it did not want to flow evenly into the previous pass. I think the edges of the spray pattern were hitting dry, while the middle was good and wet, resulting in a glossy and matte trails, like a plowed farm field.

I experimented at length with the HVLP spayer. Tested various settings on some scrap metal. Still, almost impossible to get a good flow and consistent blend of the paint. It was very frustrating!

Doing everything by the book, I still had difficulities getting a consinstent finish. Ended up Scotchbriting the entire machine to a nice, even, matte finish. Looks pretty good, although not as durable without the gloss. I may apply some good car wax to help with durability. Proly should have clearcoated, like most cars. But, was fed up and ready to get 'er done.

Due to the difficult nature of getting a good finish, I would not recommend the Nasson line of Dupoint paints for the amatuer sprayer.

Of course, the people at the paint store are basically useless...

CNC, I've found that dialing-in the HVLP gun makes a huge difference in the surface finish.

I tape-up a large 2' by 2' sheet of paper inside the paint tent, and adjust the settings and test spray on the sheet until I'm satisfied the paint is flowing well.

This page has a great description of how to set the air, fluid, and fan settings on the gun. I'm hardly an expert painter, but my surface finishes improved a lot when I followed these directions each time before I painted:

http://www.hotrodders.com/kb/body-exterior/articles/spraygun.html

cnc
You used the Acyrlic Enamel, the "yellow" label?
Were you using number 22 reducer? What size tip on gun,1.4, 1.7 etc? How wide a pattern did you set?
I have no problems with Nason,flows out and shines like a mirror.
The Nason line is great to use, able to use and intermix reducers etc between airdry, acyrlic enamel
and urethanes.