What superglue \ adhisive works for workholding?

I've heard people say superglue works for a long time now but i haven't have verry good results. I'm trying to cut parts out of 0.200in thick aluminum plate.(I'm hoping I can use the same adhesive for carbon fiber and g10 plates as well.) I used a couple superglue brands, Gorilla glue, a couple different Cyanoacrylates' from hobby stores, with accelerator and I keep knocking the sheet off (aluminum sheet sanded with 400 grit to an aluminum plate , also sanded, both cleaned really well) with an 1/8in end mill.

If anyone has suggestions of the brand \ part number for something that works well I'd really appreciate it.
I would really love to use coolant with these smaller bits especially , if you know if coolant will be ok or not I'd appreciate that info as well, thanks.

Would something like 3M VHG tape work with your setup..it's pretty strong, which is a gross understatement.

Stuart

loctite Blackmax works well for holding parts

I use Loctite 480, it's made to resist shock and have high shear strength. It's excellent.

wave a plasma torch over the part about 2" away, it charges the surface for the glue to bond to and atomically cleans it

emlclcy said:

wave a plasma torch over the part about 2" away, it charges the surface for the glue to bond to and atomically cleans it

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May work well enough, but cost and convenience wise sorta in the same vein as swatting mosquitos with a sledge hammer, ain't it?

I often use carpet, double sided tape to hold thin plate for machining. I have used epoxy and several other adhesives, but the double sided tape has worked best for me.

Can you use the "musical clamp method"? Have a milled nice and flat fixture plate and clamp from one side to do all the work you can then move the clamps to the machined side and finish the part?

I vote for Loctite Black Max 380.Ihave used it on several projects and it works great. Nick Hughes a Gunsmith and Valve repair shop in Oklahoma and he uses it to glue on sight's on he ends of high powerful rifles and shot guns he builds and rebuilds.

Be sure to wear rubber gloves as the glue with stay on your fingers even if you don't stick them together for weeks...lol

More info will help so ;-

How big are these alu plates? ...... are you gluing the entire surface? .........is that surface ''dead flat'' to match the sub table? ......... what machining ops are you doing to them? .......can you fit in lateral stops and restraints?

steve-l said:

I often use carpet, double sided tape to hold thin plate for machining. I have used epoxy and several other adhesives, but the double sided tape has worked best for me.

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Yup. Double sided sticky tape works well. Especially for outdoor carpet.

As usuall ,not NEAR ENOUGH INFORMATION.If the plates are 400 mm square you could machine them with a 1/2 inch dull end mill. If they are 4mm square you could knock them off with a toothpick. HOWEVER,let us say that they are about the size of a postage stamp,THIS might work.First,glue the part down with superglue,now lay a bead of superglue around the perimeter,laping it over the top,now sprinkle baking soda on the perimeter and work it in.,repeat.and repeat. THIS WILL BE ROCK HARD IN ABOUT A MINUTE. I have used this to repair things and it really works.I have no idea of how you will remove the superglue,but I assume that you have a way.Good luck Edwin Dirnbeck

Monarchist said:

May work well enough, but cost and convenience wise sorta in the same vein as swatting mosquitos with a sledge hammer, ain't it?

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it depends if you have one in your workshop.
quite amazing how it changes the surface energy of the substrate, you can glue 2 lunps of PTFE together with regular super glue!

I once had a job to make a new compass card for a gyro compass repeater. It needed to be made of transparent 2mm thick Lexan with hardened surfaces. The card was actually two cards running within each other. The outer card was 9" in diameter and the inner card was about 4". The outer card needed to be counter bored to 1mm thickness, as the inner card was only 1mm thick. To do that, I used a 12" plate mounted in my L&S and faced. I then mounted the 2mm square plate to the aluminum one with double sided tape. I then turned the OD and counter bored for the inner card without any difficulty. After which the Lexan plate just peeled off. No marks, no scratches and no tape residue.

crystalbond, a sub plate fixture, and a hot plate

crystalbond is a very thin hot melt adhesive that cleans up perfectly with acetone. you could glue and un-glue your parts from an aluminum sub-plate using a kitchen hot plate.

https://www.tedpella.com/technote_html/821-1-2-3-4-6-TN.pdf


You might also try archery arrow nocking hot glue sticks you can get locally if you don't feel like ordering a $40 stick of crystalbond?

also, use an aluminum subplate for aluminum parts. steel for steel. same thermal expansion no shear stress.

Crystalbond (suggestion above) looks like the bomb for this app.

Notwithstanding this, Tom Lipton (in his "Metalworking Sink or Swim" book) relates that he uses Permacel doublesided tape, and seals the edges against coolant with hot-melt glue.

Surface prep is (if I recall) cleaning the oil off both fixture plate and part (with acetone?), applying the tape to the fixture plate, sticking the part on and then using c-clamps or equivalent to set the part into the tape well. Then sealing around the edges with a hot-melt glue gun.

Another approach would be to prepare the fixture plate with a bunch of channels, so that the work is supported by little pillars where you didn't channel. You could use hot-melt or the wax that watchmakers used to use, melted into the channels, then set the part on top and push down. When the glue or wax sets up you are in business. Except you have to use slow speeds (and coolant) to avoid melting the wax. Again, it's Tom's idea.

Another Lipton approach (do you get the idea that I read the book?) is to tack weld supports on the back of the part using a low-temp rod. But this was for steel parts, iirc.

Last suggestion (mine, probably not workable) would be to leave some tabs on your parts, and drill and countersink them lower than the part work surface. Screw the part to the fixture plate, do your milling, and as a last operation, mill the tabs off.

If you use superglue, check out the temperature range specified for use. Usually less than 180-200°F. So again, slow speeds and coolant.

BTW, Edwin, I think acetone (fingernail polish remover) will remove cyanoacrylate.

emlclcy said:

it depends if you have one in your workshop.
quite amazing how it changes the surface energy of the substrate, you can glue 2 lunps of PTFE together with regular super glue!

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Neat! Must be a simpler bespoke counterpart in regular use by folks who have to do that sort of bonding and glueing work all the time?

Meanwhile.. brown "stick" shellac, heat, with alcohol post-op clean-up used to be a widely used go-to. For all our modern tech, it is still hard to beat for simplicity and effectiveness. Speed is another matter, of course.

bosleyjr said:

BTW, Edwin, I think acetone (fingernail polish remover) will remove cyanoacrylate.

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I've never had any luck removing a part using acetone. (And by the way, not all nail polish remover contains acetone.) I just use a heat gun and heat it up until I smell the super glue - at which point the part lifts right off. Then I use acetone to try to clean the residue. It doesn't come right off, takes a good bit of elbow grease ...

Of course, all of the above is only my limited experience, based on nothing more than some trial and error - no expertise claimed, YMMV, etc.

awake said:

I've never had any luck removing a part using acetone. (And by the way, not all nail polish remover contains acetone.) I just use a heat gun and heat it up until I smell the super glue - at which point the part lifts right off. Then I use acetone to try to clean the residue. It doesn't come right off, takes a good bit of elbow grease ...

Of course, all of the above is only my limited experience, based on nothing more than some trial and error - no expertise claimed, YMMV, etc.

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Acetone will clean it off parts indeed, but two flat pieces of metal glued together might take a week of soaking in it to come apart. I use heat too, if it's a convenient size I put on a hot plate at the first setting.

You might want to try using something like diamond dopping wax instead. It is melted onto the parts to fixture them and then removed after machining by heating. Cleanup involves alcohol after wiping most of the heat softened wax.

It is very strong and is often used to fixture odd shaped parts for turning, milling, and drilling.

Dopping wax has been often referred to as shellac stick but it is easier to find the correct stuff these days by the name I've used. If you just google "shellac stick" you will find a lot of hits for the stuff used to fill scratches and dings in furniture.