What would be a good "starter" carbide-insert face mill?

awake · Sep 16, 2017

Up to now I've had an unmentionable mill on which carbide would have been an expensive waste. But now that I've got a half-way decent mill, I'm thinking about adding a carbide face mill (2"? 3"? something like that). The spindle is R8.

As my question probably already reveals, I have no idea where to start. I would like something on the less expensive end, both to purchase and to put in carbide inserts, but not a waste of money (i.e., something that is cheap but ultimately more frustrating than useful).

Any recommendations?

ewlsey · Sep 16, 2017

Keep it small. Like 2". You don't have the rigidity for anything bigger. I used to have a 2" 45 degree face mill sold by Shars. It took the square SEET or SEHT type inserts. I liked it. Maritool has a 2.5" that works well.

No TPG or APKT insert mills. :ack2:

winger · Sep 16, 2017

I agree no TPG s, anything over the nose radius depth of cut and they really pound.

Other than only 2 edges, why not the apkt. I have a 3/4 and a 2" I like. cut freely and will face and do a square shoulder.

Eventually I will get a 45 deg face mill but so many toys and not enough cash.

Dave

pablo.casiano75 · Sep 16, 2017

If your cutting Aluminum you must look at A.B Tools. They have a phenomenal range of facemills for aluminum and the awesome part is that they come with the inserts already installed to get you going. It is the only facemill we use for aluminum! For all other hard materials I guess it depends on the part. We use Iscar, they have a wide variety of insert styles. Still all preference tho.

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Finegrain · Sep 16, 2017

I have used MariTool 45* (SEHT insert) facemills for a few years, on my manual mills and in my Speedio CNC. 4-6" in my Kearney Trecker when I had it, and 2-1/2" in my B'port clone and Speedio. They work fine. If I am careful when installing inserts in the MariTool facemill, I can get the inserts to sit evenly, but it takes a little practice, and sometimes takes a couple tries.

I would like to have an adjustable-pocket facemill for certain especially demanding facing jobs, but they are very costly compared to the MariTool.

Regards.

Mike

CarbideBob · Sep 17, 2017

Is this going to a facing only milling cutter or will it need to cut to shoulders?
Most general purpose shops need one of both types.
45 degree cutters rule for plain facing with the possible better of high feed cutters if they fit your machine and application.

Finegrain said:
I have used MariTool 45* (SEHT insert) facemills for a few years, .......
I can get the inserts to sit evenly, but it takes a little practice, and sometimes takes a couple tries.
Mike

How does this work, the sitting evenly and a couple tries?
Inserts have tolerances, pockets have tolerances and sometimes you can mix/match to get closer to zero.
But if an insert height checks differently if you reload into the same pocket I'd wonder if that little screw will hold it there or if you are just getting a nice warm feeling.

When I need to control a finish I'll often design the cutter to have one insert sit "proud" by more than the insert's and pocket tolerance plus a tad for mounting runout.
Sometimes on a standard cutter I'll recommend that the user puts small shims in one pocket.
Yes this means one tool controls the surface finish but at least it is controllable and you get the exact same results every tool change.

Tool life wise getting all the heights matched makes next to no difference yet some chase this as it certainly seems like a good idea.
Stranger still is those who chase height but not radial in a hope to get a better run.
Bob

Limy Sami · Sep 17, 2017

If I were in the US I'd be on to PMer Exkenna MILLING, he has a good rep on this board and understands the small user / little guys requirements / needs.

plastikdreams · Sep 17, 2017

I run kennemetal 3"5 insert and 1.5" 3 insert facemills on a bridgeport in 17-4...personally, I like the 3 insert as I can spin it faster for a great finish and get better metal removal. The 3" works well and leaves a good finish but tends to chatter in lighter almost or full face passes. I'm not a fan of the noise the machine makes in the cut entrance and exit either.

Larry Dickman · Sep 17, 2017

I would 2ndthe AB Tools, their shear hog is unbelievable. We have a couple 1-1/2 dia

For something a little bigger, like 2-1/2, take a look at Mill-Tech.

manualmachinist · Sep 17, 2017

Limy Sami said:
If I were in the US I'd be on to PMer Exkenna MILLING, he has a good rep on this board and understands the small user / little guys requirements / needs.

I'll second this. I have a 2" and a 3" that I run on and R8 BP doing lots of 300 series and 17-4 stainless and they preform well. Low cutting pressure, great finishes and the inserts stand up really well. You wont find a 4sided insert from a big name maker for $7.50 apiece.

awake · Sep 17, 2017

CarbideBob said:
Is this going to a facing only milling cutter or will it need to cut to shoulders?

Uh ... I hardly even know! I was thinking primarily facing only. I mostly work in low-carbon steel rather than aluminum.

Thanks for the suggestions - I have started to look at these ... and I'm realizing that I need a whole course just on all the different carbide inserts and what makes one better than another for a given task. I don't suppose anyone knows of a handy resource that I could use to begin that education?

Mark Rand · Sep 17, 2017

A 2 1/2" 45° square insert type should work fine for facing work. I got one for my NMTB30 mill and it has no problems driving it.

CarbideBob · Sep 17, 2017

awake said:
.... I don't suppose anyone knows of a handy resource that I could use to begin that education?

You are posting in a vary handy resource.
This is a very good book:
Modern Metal Cutting: a Practical Handbook: Sandvik: Amazon.com: Books
Bob

MattiJ · Sep 18, 2017

CarbideBob said:
You are posting in a vary handy resource.
This is a very good book:
Modern Metal Cutting: a Practical Handbook: Sandvik: Amazon.com: Books
Bob

Possibly partly same what you can download from Sandvik website: Sandvik Coromant Publications - Training Handbook

winger · Sep 18, 2017

We recently bought an octomill at work. 4.5" but this is on a 40 taper machine. 16 edges on each insert. Disadvantage over a square is less depth of cut. I don't recall if they are available in smaller diameters.

Still not sure why Ewlsey said no apkt. When I bought these I needed both face and shoulder capability.

A guy I work with has a 2 1/2 holder that uses the off corners of the APKT. He has a lot of inserts from his previous job that have the right corners worn out. It works and I thought about getting one but seems to work pretty hard on a bridgeport compared to the correct edge (opinion).

Dave

Ray Behner · Sep 18, 2017

Agree with Sami.
Kinda late for an opinion, but I bought a ZCC-CT brand 2½" from Exkenna (Curtis Payne) a couple of years ago. I Just ordered another 10 steel and 10 al. SEET inserts for this face mill. Nicest cutting face mill I own. It puts a mirror finish on stainless, steel or aluminum. This size is for a 40 taper, so you may want to go a tweak smaller.

awake · Sep 18, 2017

CarbideBob said:
You are posting in a vary handy resource.

This is true! Thanks for the links to the book (and to another poster for a link to a download). I will commence my education ...

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What would be a good "starter" carbide-insert face mill?

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Larry Dickman

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manualmachinist

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