Where to buy Needle Rollers? ( bearings )

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 28, 2015

Rebuilding my Taft Pierce No.1 and want to replace the rollers under the saddle. Looked around, but don't really see anywhere that they are _readily_ available. ... like they are a specialty item or something... Is that really the reality of it? I would like to button her back up in quick fashion as I have already replaced all the balls with new ones and cleaned all the ways. The rollers are the last thing remaining. I checked McMaster and did not see anything. The two places I found via Google want one to call in and RFQ them. WTF?

So where does one get rollers in a speedy fashion? ( .256" D x .256" L ) I don't think I need to, but could easily sleep if I increased the diameter a one or three thousandths...

I'm tempted to simply purchase some 6.5mm hard drill rod and WEDM them off...

( For clarity, I need the loose rollers by themselves. )

TGTool · Sep 28, 2015

I was imagining buying the appropriate roller bearings and cutting them up for the rollers. The components are produced in such quantity they ought to be dirt cheap somewhere on the chain if a bearing used the right size rollers.

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 28, 2015

TGTool said:
I was imagining buying the appropriate roller bearings and cutting them up for the rollers. The components are produced in such quantity they ought to be dirt cheap somewhere on the chain if a bearing used the right size rollers.

I thought about that but did not see anywhere that lets one search them by roller size. Know of any? Thanks.

Milland · Sep 28, 2015

Zahnrad Kopf said:
I'm tempted to simply purchase some 6.5mm hard drill rod and WEDM them off...

Drill rod's not close to round or uniform enough for your purposes, unless you don't mind some rumble as the table traverses.

I recently had the same issue, looking for rollers to use in a part for a pin drive (driven by a plastic worm). Also didn't have much luck, but in my case lower accuracy was OK (used hardened 416ss dowel pins).

You may either have to source complete bearings with rollers of the right diameter and cut them down, or try one of these guys (if they're not the same as what you found):

http://www.rbcbearings.com/literature/pdfs/precprodbroch.pdf [Connecticut, may not offer small quantities]
Loose Needle Rollers - Universal Bearings LLC [Indiana, Korean owned]

Loose Needle Roller Bearings - Lily Bearings [China]

needle(cylindrical,tapered) rollers or precision needle(cylindrical,tapered) roller bearings! [China]

Needle roller bearing components [may not sell smaller quantities]

Balls And Rollers [UK]

Let us know if one of these places works out for you.

Milland · Sep 28, 2015

Zahnrad Kopf said:
I thought about that but did not see anywhere that lets one search them by roller size. Know of any? Thanks.

SKF (the fourth link in my first message) should have applications engineers that could find bearing assemblies that use 6.5mm rollers, ideally of the right length. Better still of course if they can sell the rollers directly...

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 29, 2015

Milland said:
Drill rod's not close to round or uniform enough for your purposes, unless you don't mind some rumble as the table traverses.

I'm tired and not thinking well. I meant to write "gauge pins". Yes, the links you provided at the same ones I get here. Thank you all the same, though. I wrote RBC with a request. Let's see what they say.

I can have guage pins here in a day from McMaster and luckily I have a window of two days before I need to run customer parts through the WEDM so now would be be a good time if I need to.

atex57 · Sep 29, 2015

Be very careful that you chanfer or radius the end that you cut off, all rollers I have used are done that way. A sharp corner will chip or spall off.

Ed.

MaxPrairie · Sep 29, 2015

I see you are in WI. Try bearing headquarters or motion industries.

TGTool · Sep 29, 2015

Sorry, no specific experience on this one. My usual approach to a problem like this is just to find the phone number of a likely manufacturer, call them and ask to speak to one of their applications engineers. Sometimes they'll just blow you off, but the AE's are usually geared to solving unusual problems too and usually have all the odd information on file. The next problem would be if they'd sell you rollers off the production line or whether you'd just have to take the bearing numbers you get to your local supplier. Sorry it's no more help than that.

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 29, 2015

MaxPrairie said:
I see you are in WI. Try bearing headquarters or motion industries.

Called Bearings Inc, Bearing Headquarters, and Motion Industries. No love. No info.

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 29, 2015

And no love from SKF or Timken... What the heck...?

Starting to look like I will have to make them. Damn.

ADDENDUM -

Spoken to several places now. Believe I may have actually exhausted my resources. No one, no where has anything even remotely close. Frankly, it has been an effort of frustration simply because it seems the bearing industry has followed the example of the automotive, motorcycle, and other industries in that if you ask for something not on their scripted menu of responses you will confound the voice on the other end of the phone to the point of extended "Ummmmmmm..." mutterings punctuated only with silence on either side.

Shame, it is...

< deep sigh > Well, if I don't find something by end of day today I will simply order some guage pins, make a fixture so I don't have to chase the parts around the work tank, and WEDM them to length myself. That sucks, but I'm glad that I have the ability.

PaulM · Sep 30, 2015

When I looked for exactly the same thing I did not find an easy source. I did find places that would make a batch but I did not pursue it for the small number needed in the table. I wound up just reusing what I had (which were not in bad shape).

I'll check around to see if I can come up with a source quickly.

Paul
bit later - just found PSL - they specifically list bearing rollers, just sent them a message, will see if they have .256x.256 or 6.5mm x 6.5mm and will sell or send a small quantity

jdavi581 · Sep 30, 2015

I USED to be able to get them from Mcmaster. Don't know about your size, but they did sell them in the 90's. They have an amazing bunch of suppliers and may still be able to get them. they can have a quote back to you in an hour. I have also seen them online, a quick google search:
Loose Needle Rollers - Universal Bearings LLC
I have purchased them for old car transmissions occasionally, nothing really tight toleranced.
Joe

Frederick Harvie · Sep 30, 2015

I would try either Hartford Specializes in Precision Metal Balls, Dowel Pins, Bearing Parts and Custom Bearing Assemblies or Balls for Bearings | Precision Balls | Stainless Steel Balls | Abbott Ball Company Hartford technologies definitely can supply what you need but the min order may be a problem Abbot I think has ros as well as balls but could definitely direct you to a source

Milland · Sep 30, 2015

Zahnrad,
If you have to use gauge pins, if you can stand the cost I'd use Deltronic "X" pins, which are about as good as true bearing rollers from a hardness standpoint (62-64Rc) have extremely good surface finish, and are much more "round" than the common "Z" class. About $11/pin from McMaster, but you should be able to find cheaper vendors. Edge/end prep is important for true rolling and track wear. Don't know if the steels used are as pure as bearing elements (helps prevent spalling), but given their quality might even be better. http://www.deltronic.com/literature/Deltronic-Gage-Guide-2014.pdf

Did you check any of the UK vendors? They might be worth the call, and they even speak (almost) our language (don't throw things at me, you English-type folks).

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 30, 2015

PaulM said:
bit later - just found PSL - they specifically list bearing rollers, just sent them a message, will see if they have .256x.256 or 6.5mm x 6.5mm and will sell or send a small quantity

Paul, definitely let me know ASAP. Still have my addy? Also - if we fall short and I make some, do you want me to make some for you as well?

jdavi581 said:
I USED to be able to get them from Mcmaster.
Joe

Joe - Yes, I checked McM. No love. Even after phone sex. No answer from UnivBrg yet.

Frederick Harvie said:
I would try either Hartford or Abbott

Frederick, thank you. Kites sent to both.

Milland said:
Zahnrad,
If you have to use gauge pins, if you can stand the cost I'd use Deltronic "X" pins, which are about as good as true bearing rollers from a hardness standpoint (62-64Rc) have extremely good surface finish, and are much more "round" than the common "Z" class. About $11/pin from McMaster, but you should be able to find cheaper vendors. Edge/end prep is important for true rolling and track wear. Don't know if the steels used are as pure as bearing elements (helps prevent spalling), but given their quality might even be better. http://www.deltronic.com/literature/Deltronic-Gage-Guide-2014.pdf Did you check any of the UK vendors? They might be worth the call, and they even speak (almost) our language (don't throw things at me, you English-type folks).

Milland, Thanks. Yes, I was already planning to use those exact ones.

Fixture for WEDM cutting to length, and then a little spinny widget to chamfer the edges.

On it! No, I had not checked any of our cousins' vendors. My focus was myopic due to wanting them now. I could delay briefly if there was something promising, but frankly having a grinder in a billion little pieces for more than 48 hours in a frenetic shop environ isn't an appealing idea...

JRIowa · Sep 30, 2015

100 years ago, when I was in automotive, we'd get the needles and balls from SKF. The needles for U-joint journals would come in about a 1.5 gal container. IIRC, 96,000 for each container. The 16 and 17 mm balls would come in a "Gaylord". Don't remember how many, but it was a lot of them.

Long, Long ago, but not that far away.
JR

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 30, 2015

JRIowa said:
100 years ago, when I was in automotive, we'd get the needles and balls from SKF. The needles for U-joint journals would come in about a 1.5 gal container. IIRC, 96,000 for each container. The 16 and 17 mm balls would come in a "Gaylord". Don't remember how many, but it was a lot of them. Long, Long ago, but not that far away.
JR

Hi JR! Yes, much the same here. I used to build HD motors and trannys all the time, and loose rollers were like bread and butter. Seems this stuff has gone the way of the abacus and holding similar reticence to revive their proliferation. :O

Still, from what I gather, these are even more of a curiosity as they're not true "needle rollers", being "square" as they are and are more correctly ( I am told ) called "cylindrical rollers". The difference being that needles by definition ( as explained to me by both SKF & Timken ) are at minimum 2:1 ratio of length and diameter. Add to this their seemingly very odd size ( .256"/6.5mm ) and the deck becomes very stacked in the house's favor.

I am positive that one of those places will offer to make them. I am just as positive that it will simply not be worth it to me, being able to make them as planned.

PaulM · Sep 30, 2015

Just talked with RBC, now I need to talk to a distributor who will apperently then call RBC back up - in which time the person I spoke with should have had the chance to see if they have .256" x .256 or 6.5mm x 6.5mm.

Told them quantity is small about 100 should do it - possibly less as I dont remember how many there are per side (and I'm figuring we should get enough for at least 2 grinders).

If you wind up the make your own route I would probably take a set to have on hand - we can talk offline on that.
Paul
-----
distributor will make some calls and get back to me- he actually started to point me back to Universal Bearings, we don't seem to be having lots of luck. Probably easy if we wanted a thousand or better yet several thousand.

Paul

Zahnrad Kopf · Sep 30, 2015

PaulM said:
Told them quantity is small about 100 should do it - possibly less as I dont remember how many there are per side (and I'm figuring we should get enough for at least 2 grinders).

FYI - 48 per grinder. 24 per side. Held in long, rectangular, brass "carrier", 12 per side of carrier.

Where to buy Needle Rollers? ( bearings )

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