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Why the high price for industrial electrical parts?

rke[pler

Diamond
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Location
Peralta, NM USA
I wanted to add an on/off switch to my new compressor and since it has a contactor I just figured to interrupt the leads to the pressure switch. I figured it'd be nice to have a pilot light to tell me that I'd left it on. I found the proper parts (Eaton C400GK#) and the list price on the part is something like $400. That's for a low power switch and a 240V indicator lamp, parts that if not for the "contactor" association would be maybe $25 in the Mouser catalog. In the end I decided to make do with an Eaton C400GK1 start/stop and no indicator but still wonder why the vast disparity in price - maybe quantity made?
 
Let's see, OSHA, NEC, and product liability are probably the biggest cost adders. Based on stuff that I do know about, you're probably paying a lawyer or 2. If the switch fails. there's a high probability that someone would be injured or killed. If you think industrial stuff is expensive, ask Milacron about boat part.
JR
 
It's part of a larger systemic problem. I recently complained to my local Sowa about the ridiculous prices of their off-shore junk. They'll list a part, say a single APXT milling insert, for $28 in their pre-historic catalog. Then they'll have the gall to insult you with a 40% "discount" when you purchase the part, which brings the price back into (someone's) reality.

When confronted about this, and articulating how it makes them a non-viable supplier to anyone who's thumbing through the catalog before making an initial purchase, the excuse was that it makes "our competitors think that's what we charge." and some more BS about pricing (gouging) by region.

The whole distributor model in industry is antiquated and will hopefully be phased out in my lifetime. Electrical parts suppliers IME have a price premium across the range of their offerings, so it has nothing to do with OSHA or product liability. For instance, a package of sticker labels for wiring at Graybar: $16 + tax. For $0.50 worth of stickers. The entire business model is to mark-up. Most people doing purchasing aren't the owners so they continue to get away with it. I would never complain about paying for quality, but I think it's obvious enough that this does not apply to these cases.
 
If you are an electrical business, one who deals with that supplier a good bit, you will simply not believe the discount you get. It can actually be 70% or sometimes more, depending.

The list price is basically a racket between the manufacturers and the installers. The installers get to give the customer a discount off list, and the installer GETS a much bigger discount. If anyone gets shirty about it, they can go look at the list price, which they will find is even higher. So they got a "discount".

Nobody is really expected to pay list, it's just a number.

Lots of things have ridiculous markups. I once had a girlfriend whose family owned a women's fashion clothes shop. The markup on clothes was literally 1000%. It's commonly 500% even for the department stores.
 
its all volume based - (and the volume does not need to be all that high).
The company I work for makes hyd delay breakers (industrial and commercial markets not home stuff). Now there is a huge variety of breaker configurations and styles but as an example we sell some for about $10/pole and if you look them up at a place like digikey they can be $100 or even more. So there is a huge discount between individual list price and commercial business purchases (they are putting them in their products).

Paul
 
IT amazes me when people bitch about the cost of supplies. anyone ever heard of buying surplus ?

that cutler-hammer switch is available new on ebay for less than $100 . probably <$50 if you really looked.

APXT inserts ? $3 apiece ...including shipping .

get a clue, and save some money....
 
Look at a GE catalog, you will find a price followed by GO-10G, or GO-10H or..... The GO-10G is the discount schedule which for the product lines I was familiar with, could be up to 45%.

This from GEP 1260 controls catalog.

5. Order special modifications or forms not listed by complete
description using a listed Product Number as reference.
Example: Similar to CR306C104 except with 480/120-Volt
control transformer and red indicating light in cover.
Total List Price . . . . . . . . . . . . . $483.00, GO-10G.

Tom
 
I always thought electrical supplies were ridiculous. I built my own air compressor from new or new old stock parts. Found a brand new old stock Curtis D80 pump (large single stage pump) on a skid at a shop for $300, ordered a new 60 gallon tank from a compressor repair shop for between $300 - $400 (US made with all the certification tags), the new single phase 5HP motor and magnetic starter cost over $500 all total with the starter being about 1/3 of that. I originally built it with an existing 3HP Dayton Farm Duty motor but the load quickly killed it. I must admit that it is a real work horse and all said it was a good deal and I'm not complaining at all, only though it was disturbing that the electrical side were the most expensive parts.
Dan
 
IT amazes me when people bitch about the cost of supplies. anyone ever heard of buying surplus ?

that cutler-hammer switch is available new on ebay for less than $100 . probably <$50 if you really looked.

Nope. $65 + shipping was the lowest I could find there. Sometimes Amazon can beat the price, sometimes Google search in shopping. But even at $65 it's still 10x the manufacturing cost. I did find a pile of 240VAC indicator lights on Amazon for a few bucks, I'll sneak that in.

(What the heck is wrong with the post reply function? I can't enter spaces at the end of the text, have to leave a little dead character to get spaces.)
 
DigiKey used to perform some miracle, where the stuff was cheap, the shipping was cheap, and somehow I could order in the afternoon, and get it the next morning, and that just doesn't happen up in Canada :D
 
They get you both ways. At a distributor near me the minimum walk in cash purchase is $150. A return will cost you 30%. It's just a message to the non-contractor types - don't bother us with your small quantities.
 
The electrical supply houses and places like Grainger are noted for high prices. Have you tried electronic suppliers like Digi-Key, Newark, Mouser, Allied, etc? Oh, I see you do know about Mouser.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the parts they sell. It is like an item intended for a house vs. one intended for an airplane. A "contactor" is nothing but a relay with a big price tag. If you learn to understand the specs., you can find a relay that will serve the same purpose. And it will last just as long.
 
Industrial controls have always been on the pricey side. If you want a lit toggle switch from China, thats cheap. If you want something with safety ratings and testing for thousands of cycles by a pissed off 300 lb gorilla you pay for it. Those switches are pricey, but they last. Getting stuff from a good supplier helps the price but its never truly "cheap".
 
The electrical supply houses and places like Grainger are noted for high prices. Have you tried electronic suppliers like Digi-Key, Newark, Mouser, Allied, etc? Oh, I see you do know about Mouser.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the parts they sell. It is like an item intended for a house vs. one intended for an airplane. A "contactor" is nothing but a relay with a big price tag. If you learn to understand the specs., you can find a relay that will serve the same purpose. And it will last just as long.



Generally NOT, actually... Relays have current ratings. Contactors have HP ratings. Different deal. The contactor must survive (in working condition) many "load breaks" of "locked rotor current" on the given HP of motor. A relay to do the same job is usually going to be labeled as a "contactor"......

You MIGHT find a "relay" that can survive at lower HP ratings, but it may not carry UL for that usage.
 
"Nobody is really expected to pay list, it's just a number."

+1

Found this out in the days before the big box home depot stores - went to the local electrical supply place to order
the THHN I needed to run power to the garage. Was not a member of the 'club' and the wire was priced accordingly.
(also, this was before the internet. When dinosaurs roamed the earth....)

"I can buy it cheaper from mcmaster carr!"

"Go ahead" was the reply.

I did.

Supply house is out of business now I think.
 
The outfits like Grainger sell cheap Chinese junk, too. An example that just came up. A fellow in another thread needs a repair or replacement for an air compressor pressure switch. I told him to get a Square D one, not the Chinese one that Grainger also sells. The quality is the sort you would expect from a dollar store.

Re pricing, I need an Essex 90-340 relay for my home furnace. On the net prices run from about $6 to almost $17. Of course, there is shipping and handling in there.

There is some justification for protective policies. Back in the tube TV days, I knew the people in Ebinger Radio. When you went in there, you had to show proof that you were in the TV repair business, an amateur or commercial radio operator license, or that you were otherwise employed in the electronics business. The public was most definitely not invited and the staff was not always nice about telling them so. The tubes in TV sets had a finite life span and a large part of a repairman's income was from their periodic replacement. A set owner who replaced the tubes himself and then called the serviceman when that failed to fix it put a real dent in the repairman's revenue and they appreciated a protective dealer.

Bill
 
No, it is not different. It is only expressed differently. Voltage and current produce HP. You just have to know how to translate the specs. And you must take into account the startup and stopping surges due to the inductive load of a motor. The people who make "contactors" have done that for you and they charge for it.

I didn't know we were requiring a UL listing on it. IF that's the case you may have to go with the more expensive components.

But for gosh sake, I have seen many, many contactors that were reasonably priced. I think the OP just needs to search a bit more.

It would be helpful if the OP had said something about what HP or Voltage and current he was working with.

And he talks about an indicator light. He should be able to find an indicator light for $5 or less, paying full list price for a brand new one. Again, look at ELECTRONIC supply houses. There will be dozens or more. I am talking about a light that is ready to just snap into a drilled hole in the control panel. If he needs a lighted switch, they can be had for $10 or less.



Generally NOT, actually... Relays have current ratings. Contactors have HP ratings. Different deal. The contactor must survive (in working condition) many "load breaks" of "locked rotor current" on the given HP of motor. A relay to do the same job is usually going to be labeled as a "contactor"......

You MIGHT find a "relay" that can survive at lower HP ratings, but it may not carry UL for that usage.
 
But for gosh sake, I have seen many, many contactors that were reasonably priced. I think the OP just needs to search a bit more.

It would be helpful if the OP had said something about what HP or Voltage and current he was working with.

And he talks about an indicator light. He should be able to find an indicator light for $5 or less, paying full list price for a brand new one. Again, look at ELECTRONIC supply houses. There will be dozens or more. I am talking about a light that is ready to just snap into a drilled hole in the control panel. If he needs a lighted switch, they can be had for $10 or less.

My post:

rke[pler said:
I wanted to add an on/off switch to my new compressor and since it has a contactor I just figured to interrupt the leads to the pressure switch. I figured it'd be nice to have a pilot light to tell me that I'd left it on. I found the proper parts (Eaton C400GK#) and the list price on the part is something like $400. That's for a low power switch and a 240V indicator lamp, parts that if not for the "contactor" association would be maybe $25 in the Mouser catalog. In the end I decided to make do with an Eaton C400GK1 start/stop and no indicator but still wonder why the vast disparity in price - maybe quantity made?

I didn't say anything about HP as I wasn't looking for a contactor, I did mention the voltage. All I'm doing is adding a switch and indicator to the coil wiring and bitching that the contactor maker (Eaton) has ridiculous prices on what is a simple switch. And in the posts you didn't read I mentioned that I did find an indicator light for 240V at well less than Eaton's $140, in fact I got 3 of them for something near $5.

I did notice in the Quincy info that they supply my compressor with a contactor panel mount "on/off" switch as an option. I inquired and got the part number and googling found a price of $95 for it. I might have gone that route had I known it was available and I might have to if the start/stop switches from Eaton aren't appropriate (I can't find simple electrical diagrams for the switch - I'm assuming that the start is a NO with the stop mechanically opening it - but then there are 3 leads so maybe the stop is electrically coupled as well. I have some understanding of electronics but industrial electrical stuff has different terminology).
 








 
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