maschinewerks
Plastic
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Location
- ontario
hi im looking for anyone who has steadies,or other accesories for a willson slant bed.they were made in england and dont seem to be very common thanks- terry
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willson slant bed lathe
- Thread starter maschinewerks
- Start date
- Replies 52
- Views 17,310
Limy Sami
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
Terry, the slants weren't very common over here when they were being built, and IME like most Wilsons wore badly, not shall we say, one of British engineerings finer products.
That said, you might be lucky but in your shoes I'd look to fabricating my own as you could be in for a long wait.
I don't know if you've seen this, but have included it anyway
http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page2.html
Take care. Sami.
That said, you might be lucky but in your shoes I'd look to fabricating my own as you could be in for a long wait.
I don't know if you've seen this, but have included it anyway
http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page2.html
Take care. Sami.
Mark McGrath
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Location
- Scotland
I`ve got one of these lying about somewhere.No steadies for it though and have never actually saw any either.
Suppose you could make an angle bracket to clamp to the bed and mount a common make of steady on the top.
If I wanted a small lathe for the shed,one of these would be a good choice as the slant bed greatly increases the swing.Small problem though,the toolpost height was made to suit 3/4" shank tools and although it accepts 20mm sq the tip is then above centre.
Suppose you could make an angle bracket to clamp to the bed and mount a common make of steady on the top.
If I wanted a small lathe for the shed,one of these would be a good choice as the slant bed greatly increases the swing.Small problem though,the toolpost height was made to suit 3/4" shank tools and although it accepts 20mm sq the tip is then above centre.
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
Mark McGrath + Limy Sami
What specific problems were there with the Willson slant-beds, other than the (bed?) wear ?
On the face of it, looks like an ingenious layout. I particularly liked the taper turning attachment http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page3.html
which can be turned through 90 degrees and used for facing steep tapers - it's got (what seems like) a particularly clever way of getting around the need for a telescopic feedscrew - effectively a toolpost with a slide, so the tool can advance and retract under direct TT control.
...
I saw my first Willson slanter today, and it must be a very late model, but apparently at one time there was a local agent in my little colonial town here down under in the remotest (semi) industrialised nation on earth.
If hypothetically the lathe I saw (which was unworn, having spent its life in a home workshop) was for sale at the right price, are there other show-stopping issues?
I don't do much heavy work, but the big swing would be extremely handy for flanges and slewing rings and suchlike which I often have to farm out, or hop on someone else's machine. It also had both metric and imperial threading at the flick of a lever, not often seen on lathes in my price range.
The only feature which seemed really Mickey Mouse was the trip to disengage the feed, which slid along the front lip of the drip tray.
The lip was flimsy and (even in this lathe with an apparently charmed life) not at all straight.
I would greatly appreciate your informed comments.
What specific problems were there with the Willson slant-beds, other than the (bed?) wear ?
On the face of it, looks like an ingenious layout. I particularly liked the taper turning attachment http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page3.html
which can be turned through 90 degrees and used for facing steep tapers - it's got (what seems like) a particularly clever way of getting around the need for a telescopic feedscrew - effectively a toolpost with a slide, so the tool can advance and retract under direct TT control.
...
I saw my first Willson slanter today, and it must be a very late model, but apparently at one time there was a local agent in my little colonial town here down under in the remotest (semi) industrialised nation on earth.
If hypothetically the lathe I saw (which was unworn, having spent its life in a home workshop) was for sale at the right price, are there other show-stopping issues?
I don't do much heavy work, but the big swing would be extremely handy for flanges and slewing rings and suchlike which I often have to farm out, or hop on someone else's machine. It also had both metric and imperial threading at the flick of a lever, not often seen on lathes in my price range.
The only feature which seemed really Mickey Mouse was the trip to disengage the feed, which slid along the front lip of the drip tray.
The lip was flimsy and (even in this lathe with an apparently charmed life) not at all straight.
I would greatly appreciate your informed comments.
Mark McGrath
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Location
- Scotland
Troup,I wasn`t aware there were wear problems with these lathes.Admiiedly I`ve only seen a few of them.The one I have is a decent little machine and my only dislike is the LO spindle which pushes the chuck out a bit far from the bearings.Top speed at about 750 is a bit low but ample.I suppose due to the slant bed design the downward cutting forces are concentrated on a smaller area than on a conventional bed but I haven`t found it a problem.I would go as far as say that the bigger capacity and chip clearance afforded by the slant bed far outweigh any disadvantages in my eyes.They are quite ridgid,I turned down the shank of a breaker steel on mine one morning.Try that with a Colchester.If I was starting out and needed a lathe I would be looking for one of these.I would want one just for the advantages you can see yourself.
John Stevenson has a post on the Homeshop Machinist forum where he describes making steadies from plate.Might be worth looking at.I doubt that you will find attachments for this machine but most of them are makeable if you have the time.
Mebbe Sami doesn`t like them cos he can`t lay his roll up and cup of tea on the bed. :-)
Mark.
John Stevenson has a post on the Homeshop Machinist forum where he describes making steadies from plate.Might be worth looking at.I doubt that you will find attachments for this machine but most of them are makeable if you have the time.
Mebbe Sami doesn`t like them cos he can`t lay his roll up and cup of tea on the bed. :-)
Mark.
Limy Sami
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
A stint of heavy kick bollock and bite work on a clapped one of these
http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page4.html
put me off Willsons for life, bit like pulling on points levers in a signal box.
The slant bed I've tried, but it was a Willson,......... the tea cup and rollup problem finished the deal for me
That said I agree with Mark about it being a good choise for size and versatility,..... one mans meat is anothers poison.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/page4.html
put me off Willsons for life, bit like pulling on points levers in a signal box.
The slant bed I've tried, but it was a Willson,......... the tea cup and rollup problem finished the deal for me
That said I agree with Mark about it being a good choise for size and versatility,..... one mans meat is anothers poison.
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
Thanks guys, sounds like I could do worse
I guess the thing which appeals most is not just the fact that (as Tony Griffiths says) there is no need for a gap (gaps offend my preference for short, direct stress paths), but the fact that the "gap" on the Willson effectively stretches all the way to wherever the action is (gaps are almost always an inch too short, IME) In other words, you can turn BIG flanges on the end of long shafts (like a one piece hydraulic piston rod) too big to fit through the spindle bore
Mark - your views on the Willson seem to have mellowed somewhat since your post in 2004 ! I'm relieved by your comment on rigidity of the Willson, 'cos I'm going to have to let my Pratt & Whitney Model B go if I get the Willson, and whoever designed that followed the Liberace principle * on rigidity, even if it's not entirely all in the right places- the fancy double-decker cross-slide looks somewhat dainty on the P&W, whereas the cast cover for the coolant sump contains about as much iron as the bed on a Myford S7.
If the truth be known, another major attraction of the slant-bed is the fact it looks as though it would pretty much clean itself. I was just watching a guy taking a loooooong finish cut towards the chuck on a conventional-bed lathe and the d**n chip was spiralling instead of breaking, and he had one hand on the chrome-moly tubing to dampen out the 115dB "song", and with the other ineffectually trying to swipe away the swarf to somewhere safe with a folded bit of corrugated cardboard or whatever, and just a few inches short of where the cut needs to travel to uninterrupted, the massive tangle of helicoidal metal doodlings catches a chuck jaw and leaps off the bed and starts beating everything it can reach to death, including the operator. A a a a a a arrgh !
*apparently the Rhinestone cowboy went on record as saying "too much of a good thing is PRECISELY the right amount"
I think, when it comes to rigidity and lathes, he had a point. Maybe he was a closet ... machinist ?
I guess the thing which appeals most is not just the fact that (as Tony Griffiths says) there is no need for a gap (gaps offend my preference for short, direct stress paths), but the fact that the "gap" on the Willson effectively stretches all the way to wherever the action is (gaps are almost always an inch too short, IME) In other words, you can turn BIG flanges on the end of long shafts (like a one piece hydraulic piston rod) too big to fit through the spindle bore
Mark - your views on the Willson seem to have mellowed somewhat since your post in 2004 ! I'm relieved by your comment on rigidity of the Willson, 'cos I'm going to have to let my Pratt & Whitney Model B go if I get the Willson, and whoever designed that followed the Liberace principle * on rigidity, even if it's not entirely all in the right places- the fancy double-decker cross-slide looks somewhat dainty on the P&W, whereas the cast cover for the coolant sump contains about as much iron as the bed on a Myford S7.
If the truth be known, another major attraction of the slant-bed is the fact it looks as though it would pretty much clean itself. I was just watching a guy taking a loooooong finish cut towards the chuck on a conventional-bed lathe and the d**n chip was spiralling instead of breaking, and he had one hand on the chrome-moly tubing to dampen out the 115dB "song", and with the other ineffectually trying to swipe away the swarf to somewhere safe with a folded bit of corrugated cardboard or whatever, and just a few inches short of where the cut needs to travel to uninterrupted, the massive tangle of helicoidal metal doodlings catches a chuck jaw and leaps off the bed and starts beating everything it can reach to death, including the operator. A a a a a a arrgh !
*apparently the Rhinestone cowboy went on record as saying "too much of a good thing is PRECISELY the right amount"
I think, when it comes to rigidity and lathes, he had a point. Maybe he was a closet ... machinist ?
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
Maschinewerks: if I do happen to buy it, I can take photos and a few leading measurements of the steadies, the lathe I have my eye on has both. To my eye they look too light, though, even allowing for my perceptions being coloured by the humungous steadies on the P&W, which would do nicely if you had a few rollers to rough out for your local steel mill...
I'm not feeling like quibbling, tho, given that the asking price for the lathe wouldn't do much more than replace the chucks.
On reflection, given that they're decent sized Pratt Burnerds in immaculate order, it possibly wouldn't even do that. So ... I guess I've talked myself into the situation where I feel a lathe coming on.
If I get rid of the P&W and one of the Myfords, I'll be back down to two lathes - in my defence, I've only got one mill ...
I'm not feeling like quibbling, tho, given that the asking price for the lathe wouldn't do much more than replace the chucks.
On reflection, given that they're decent sized Pratt Burnerds in immaculate order, it possibly wouldn't even do that. So ... I guess I've talked myself into the situation where I feel a lathe coming on.
If I get rid of the P&W and one of the Myfords, I'll be back down to two lathes - in my defence, I've only got one mill ...
Larry on Lake Superior
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Location
- Duluth, MN
Large slant bed.
About 10 years ago I had a straight truck and was doing local deliveries in the Mpls./St.Paul area. One day I had a stop at ABM, Inc. ABM stood for Abdul Butt Machining. Mr. Butt was an immigrant from the UK(most recently) and Pakistan. He had a modest sized general machine shop with several maching centers that were all busy. We got to talking(I was self employed) and I found Mr Butt to be quite interesting. In the early stages of his business he bought used machinery in the UK and imported it to the US. This was before the pound had pounded the dollar into the dirt. The machines imported were all manuals of European origin. He even imported Bridgeports that were manufactured in the UK. At the time we talked he was no longer actively engaged in importing. He showed me a good sized(5-6,000#) slant bed that was setting out in the weather. At the time I had no where to install and operate such a large machine. To this day it is the only slant bed manual lathe I've ever seen. It may well be there still, available for scrap pricing. As I recall the surface rust wasn't too bad.
About 10 years ago I had a straight truck and was doing local deliveries in the Mpls./St.Paul area. One day I had a stop at ABM, Inc. ABM stood for Abdul Butt Machining. Mr. Butt was an immigrant from the UK(most recently) and Pakistan. He had a modest sized general machine shop with several maching centers that were all busy. We got to talking(I was self employed) and I found Mr Butt to be quite interesting. In the early stages of his business he bought used machinery in the UK and imported it to the US. This was before the pound had pounded the dollar into the dirt. The machines imported were all manuals of European origin. He even imported Bridgeports that were manufactured in the UK. At the time we talked he was no longer actively engaged in importing. He showed me a good sized(5-6,000#) slant bed that was setting out in the weather. At the time I had no where to install and operate such a large machine. To this day it is the only slant bed manual lathe I've ever seen. It may well be there still, available for scrap pricing. As I recall the surface rust wasn't too bad.
ega
Plastic
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Location
- Rochester, UK
Willson slant bed lathe
My first post on the site - thanks to those involved for registering an amateur UK engineer. I asked to join because this is one of the few areas where the slant bed is discussed (I have, of course, read the entry on www.lathes.co.uk and, for an owner the repro manual they sell is a great tho expensive buy).
I bought my lathe by accident at the end of last year and have been working on it on and off since then. Some comments on the points already raised:
Steadies: the standard travelling steady came with my machine and has the (to me) unusual feature of being adjustable across the width of the saddle via a tee slot.
TTA: I too was interested in the taper turning attachment and would like to get more precise details or to buy one.
Metric/imperial threading: this depends on a 125/127 gear pair one or other of which meshes with a 50T gear on the gearbox input shaft. This shaft (1 1/8" dia) has a lot of overhang and mine was bent as bought.
L0 taper: I agree about the overhang. How does this spindle mount compare with others when it comes to mounting a heavy chuck, I wonder; the Willson's 10" four jaw and 16" face plate are about as much as I can lift!
Spindle speed: top speed is 954, via in my case a 240V-in-440V out inverter driving the original 2HP motor.
I'd welcome a discussion with any members with experience of this machine and wish I had known there was one in Scotland when I visited Wester Ross last autumn!
My first post on the site - thanks to those involved for registering an amateur UK engineer. I asked to join because this is one of the few areas where the slant bed is discussed (I have, of course, read the entry on www.lathes.co.uk and, for an owner the repro manual they sell is a great tho expensive buy).
I bought my lathe by accident at the end of last year and have been working on it on and off since then. Some comments on the points already raised:
Steadies: the standard travelling steady came with my machine and has the (to me) unusual feature of being adjustable across the width of the saddle via a tee slot.
TTA: I too was interested in the taper turning attachment and would like to get more precise details or to buy one.
Metric/imperial threading: this depends on a 125/127 gear pair one or other of which meshes with a 50T gear on the gearbox input shaft. This shaft (1 1/8" dia) has a lot of overhang and mine was bent as bought.
L0 taper: I agree about the overhang. How does this spindle mount compare with others when it comes to mounting a heavy chuck, I wonder; the Willson's 10" four jaw and 16" face plate are about as much as I can lift!
Spindle speed: top speed is 954, via in my case a 240V-in-440V out inverter driving the original 2HP motor.
I'd welcome a discussion with any members with experience of this machine and wish I had known there was one in Scotland when I visited Wester Ross last autumn!
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
Boy, it must have been some crunch-up to bend a 1 1/8" shaft, unless that overhang is truly heroic !
I did end up buying that Willson, but haven't taken delivery of it yet - there's a small question of making some space !
I have worked out a provisional scheme to cut the many standard pitches missing from the metric series, such as 0.75, 1.5, 1.75, 3.0, 3.5, 4.5, 6.0
Basically it involves interposing a 50T driving a 50T in the train upstream or downstream of the 125/127 pair to maintain the standard pitches.
Substituting a 49T and a 54T for the driven 50T will cut the other metric pitches listed above, exactly rather than as an approximation.
Note: I don't yet have the lathe or a photo of the area in question, so this may be difficult to carry out in practice.
Thanks for the heads up about the overhang: I'll try and address this at the same time, with an outrigger support.
I'm a bit mystified about the reported overhang with the L0 spindle nose - maybe they changed the backplate design latterly, because mine (one of the last production, judging from Tony G's website) didn't strike me as overhanging significantly more than a camlock.
PM me to exchange email addresses (maschinewerks too - I may end up building heavier steadies, in which case I may sell the standard items).
I did end up buying that Willson, but haven't taken delivery of it yet - there's a small question of making some space !
I have worked out a provisional scheme to cut the many standard pitches missing from the metric series, such as 0.75, 1.5, 1.75, 3.0, 3.5, 4.5, 6.0
Basically it involves interposing a 50T driving a 50T in the train upstream or downstream of the 125/127 pair to maintain the standard pitches.
Substituting a 49T and a 54T for the driven 50T will cut the other metric pitches listed above, exactly rather than as an approximation.
Note: I don't yet have the lathe or a photo of the area in question, so this may be difficult to carry out in practice.
Thanks for the heads up about the overhang: I'll try and address this at the same time, with an outrigger support.
I'm a bit mystified about the reported overhang with the L0 spindle nose - maybe they changed the backplate design latterly, because mine (one of the last production, judging from Tony G's website) didn't strike me as overhanging significantly more than a camlock.
PM me to exchange email addresses (maschinewerks too - I may end up building heavier steadies, in which case I may sell the standard items).
Mark McGrath
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Location
- Scotland
I use a programme you can download here:-http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page14.html
called NthreadsP to calculate gear trains with the gears available.Set the quick change box on a 1-1 setting.
i.e.
If it is an 8tpi leadscrew set the box for 8tpi and fit the gears for the pitch required according to the programme.Easier to do than write.
I believe some of the later Willsons had camlock spindles.
Mark.
called NthreadsP to calculate gear trains with the gears available.Set the quick change box on a 1-1 setting.
i.e.
If it is an 8tpi leadscrew set the box for 8tpi and fit the gears for the pitch required according to the programme.Easier to do than write.
I believe some of the later Willsons had camlock spindles.
Mark.
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
Thanks Mark
My Willson doesn't have any change gears, just the QC box and the metric transposition pair described by ega
The gears I've worked out will combine with a couple of the built-in ratios to produce the missing pitches; if I can come up with a reasonably simple configuration, I'll get just those 4 gears cut. Anything more exotic, if not too big, I can do on the Myford (which has a complete set of changewheels)
The lathe I've purchased is definitely an L0 type nose, but the overhang is on the moderate side.
ega
Plastic
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Location
- Rochester, UK
Willson slant bed lathe
Troup:
I'm glad to hear you're going ahead with your purchase. As an amateur, I had some thinking to do to move what was to me a large top-heavy item. I finally used a local scrap merchant with a three ton pickup and crane. The whole job was made a lot easier by bolting castors to the stand via angle outriggers.
Missing metric pitches:
The manual merely says "Two further wheels, interchangeable with the output shaft wheel in the train, are available to increase the metric threads to twelve and the range up to 6mm." It doesn't give the size of these wheels so I'll be pursuing Mark McGrath's software suggestion. I haven't checked but I bet reasonable approximations are already present in the standard setup.
Overhang of gearbox shaft:
I thought about a ball bearing outrigger but supporting it without deleting the oilseal looked dodgy. I did, of course renew the plain bearings in the box and the seal after straightening the shaft. Incidentally, my feed/threads change lever on the right of the gearbox was very stiff and I changed the rather ugly casting for a longer handle.
Overhang of spindle:
As an indication, I have 5 1/2" from the front of the circular bearing housing to the face of the 3J chuck. I don't plan to get hung up (!) on overhang.
Troup:
I'm glad to hear you're going ahead with your purchase. As an amateur, I had some thinking to do to move what was to me a large top-heavy item. I finally used a local scrap merchant with a three ton pickup and crane. The whole job was made a lot easier by bolting castors to the stand via angle outriggers.
Missing metric pitches:
The manual merely says "Two further wheels, interchangeable with the output shaft wheel in the train, are available to increase the metric threads to twelve and the range up to 6mm." It doesn't give the size of these wheels so I'll be pursuing Mark McGrath's software suggestion. I haven't checked but I bet reasonable approximations are already present in the standard setup.
Overhang of gearbox shaft:
I thought about a ball bearing outrigger but supporting it without deleting the oilseal looked dodgy. I did, of course renew the plain bearings in the box and the seal after straightening the shaft. Incidentally, my feed/threads change lever on the right of the gearbox was very stiff and I changed the rather ugly casting for a longer handle.
Overhang of spindle:
As an indication, I have 5 1/2" from the front of the circular bearing housing to the face of the 3J chuck. I don't plan to get hung up (!) on overhang.
John in MA
Titanium
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2005
- Location
- MA, USA
The Fisk pipe organ company has one of these lathes. I saw it in use during a tour of the facility, but I couldn't find anyone who knew much about it. Seemed like an interesting design.
Troup
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
ega
Thanks for the info on screwcutting, sounds like I might have reinvented their exact solution !
Well done on the moving - always a challenge to move something like this with safety. I'm going for an experienced machinery mover with a Hiab hoist on a truck.
My only problem is clearing an access way in my extremely crowded and disorganised workshop !
Presume this is to front face, and it certainly sounds reasonable, but without knowing how deep the chuck is, this is hard to compare (although I'll do so and report back when I get the machine).
How far to rear face of chuck backplate? (From the face of the bearing housing)
Thanks for the info on screwcutting, sounds like I might have reinvented their exact solution !
Well done on the moving - always a challenge to move something like this with safety. I'm going for an experienced machinery mover with a Hiab hoist on a truck.
My only problem is clearing an access way in my extremely crowded and disorganised workshop !
Presume this is to front face, and it certainly sounds reasonable, but without knowing how deep the chuck is, this is hard to compare (although I'll do so and report back when I get the machine).
How far to rear face of chuck backplate? (From the face of the bearing housing)
TFenton
Plastic
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Location
- Yorkshire, England
Hello guys, another new user from England here, also a new owner of a Willson slant bed.
Some interesting reading for me on the thread, I'm interested to know how successful the 240-440v inverter has been, as I'm at the stage of deciding whether to opt for a replacement single phase motor, or an inverter and retain the original 3-phase.
My lathe seems to have fared reasonably well, some very light wear to the main bed slides but that is all. I'm also looking to buy the manual from lathes.co.uk and I'm interested to know a brief outline of what it contains.
I haven't got my head around screwcutting just yet, I'm lucky that the lathe came complete with a good selection of change gears, and also its original face plate. Getting it to do metric threadforms would be useful, so I am interested to hear if any of you guys have managed it.
Some interesting reading for me on the thread, I'm interested to know how successful the 240-440v inverter has been, as I'm at the stage of deciding whether to opt for a replacement single phase motor, or an inverter and retain the original 3-phase.
My lathe seems to have fared reasonably well, some very light wear to the main bed slides but that is all. I'm also looking to buy the manual from lathes.co.uk and I'm interested to know a brief outline of what it contains.
I haven't got my head around screwcutting just yet, I'm lucky that the lathe came complete with a good selection of change gears, and also its original face plate. Getting it to do metric threadforms would be useful, so I am interested to hear if any of you guys have managed it.
Mark McGrath
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Location
- Scotland
Interesting reading this old thread again.All the more so that despite his comments on wear and "never again" Sami bought mine from me.
T Fenton,doeas it not do some metric pitches as standard?
Mark.
T Fenton,doeas it not do some metric pitches as standard?
Mark.
Limy Sami
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
Clive603
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2008
- Location
- Sussex, England
I'm told that there are no ex factory 240 - 440 single to three phase inverters. Those on the UK market are products of a fairly active cottage industry devoted to modifying nominal 240 V in - out units with successful results. Only a simple re-configuration of the input side is needed. There is no technical reason why the factories don't produce them as a production item. I've got one of the big "whole workshop" units from Drives Direct which gives me 10 HP (nominal) worth of three phase power and also allows me to use the normal machine controls provided I don't want to start a motor larger than 5 HP. Expensive but the convenience was worth it. Normally inverters are set-up on a one per machine basis and driven by their own controls so they have a nice soft start and controlled run up to speed. Easier on the output side. Also got a stand alone one from another supplier which I'll use, in proper soft start mode to run, a Hydrovane compressor.
I'm too old to keep messing about getting converters running well.
Clive
