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  1. #1
    Roscoe Splevins is offline Plastic
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    Default Z axis tool setter

    We have a dial indicator type Z axis tool setter. This new old stock, we've never used it. Now one of the operators would like to use it to speed up set up. The instructions are kind'a in English except for the logic part... Anyone know how to set this at 2" and zero the indicator? The base has 4 permanent magnets to hold the unit to the table. There is a screw at the top to stop or adjust the tool contact plunger. On each side are set screws. No obvious purpose. There is a rotating knob on one side for "SET" and "USE".

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    hornluv is offline Aluminum
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    I would imagine a height gage would be handy. Check that with gage blocks first, then check and set your z setter.

  3. #3
    Gary E is online now Diamond
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    Tool Length Offsets have been EASILY set for over 50 yrs WITHOUT that contraption.
    Using it will result in you either missing the part by 2 inches or burring the first tool you use 2 inches deeper than you want.... It's JUNK
    SELL it on eBay or better yet toss it in the scrap bin...

  4. #4
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
    crashtestdummy is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary E View Post
    Tool Length Offsets have been EASILY set for over 50 yrs WITHOUT that contraption.
    Using it will result in you either missing the part by 2 inches or burring the first tool you use 2 inches deeper than you want.... It's JUNK
    SELL it on eBay or better yet toss it in the scrap bin...
    Ive used one for ten years and never had that problem. Maybe math isn't your strong point.

    To the OP, I have one like what you described at work. I will look at it on Monday and get you some info. The one I have is a cheapo import and I don't like how much force is required to make it register. I use lots of 1/8" and smaller carbide endmills and drills and I prefer my electronic version (when it's working right).

    Electronic Tool Setter Adjustment?

  5. #5
    Gary E is online now Diamond
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    Ive used one for ten years and never had that problem. Maybe math isn't your strong point.

    To the OP, I have one like what you described at work. I will look at it on Monday and get you some info. The one I have is a cheapo import and I don't like how much force is required to make it register. I use lots of 1/8" and smaller carbide endmills and drills and I prefer my electronic version (when it's working right).

    Electronic Tool Setter Adjustment?
    Well... actually, no, you're wrong... IF YOU ALONE want to use one in YOUR shop, no doubt you can develope a set method to always end up with the correct settings... What the OP is asking about is allowing ONE person to use this along with others that use the system in uses now... If it were my shop, I'd not allow it PERIOD.


    Uh hum... "when it's working right" ????? you've proved my point

  6. #6
    gregormarwick is online now Stainless
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    We have several (expensive, high quality, accurate) nikken 100mm units in our shop that are used many times daily. Short of a fancy offline presetter they are far and away the quickest most accurate way to measure tool offsets. We have never had a crash or a bad part that's resulted from using them.

    Gary is right about one thing though, you need to either standardise on it or not use it at all. There will eventually be consequences if someone uses it incorrectly or mixes with other methods of tool setting.

    Now in order to set it, (based on most I have seen) I would expect it to work as follows:

    Turn the knob to SET, push the pad down to the hard stop and zero the dial.

    Gregor

  7. #7
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
    crashtestdummy is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary E View Post
    Well... actually, no, you're wrong... IF YOU ALONE want to use one in YOUR shop, no doubt you can develope a set method to always end up with the correct settings... What the OP is asking about is allowing ONE person to use this along with others that use the system in uses now... If it were my shop, I'd not allow it PERIOD.


    Uh hum... "when it's working right" ????? you've proved my point
    OK I will bite, how do you recommend setting the z axis on a CNC?

  8. #8
    Billiam is offline Aluminum
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    Set a mic at 2.0000", lock it, place z-setter between the anvils and zero the dial. Repeat a few times to be sure.

  9. #9
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
    crashtestdummy is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billiam View Post
    Set a mic at 2.0000", lock it, place z-setter between the anvils and zero the dial. Repeat a few times to be sure.
    Micrometers won't work directly on either of my zero setters. One has a recessed base for the batteries, the other has four legs on the corners. A height gauge is the easiest tool to use that I've found.

  10. #10
    Jorgo is offline Aluminum
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    I have a cheap import setter. I use 123 blocks to check it. Put one beside it with the 2 inch side up and slide the other one across the plunger. The only difference I can find between the setting position and the use setting is how much travel the plunger has. I dont use it much though. I have a spindle probe and tool setter. How could I ever live without them.

    Jordy

  11. #11
    Roscoe Splevins is offline Plastic
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    My first impresstion was to tell the operator "NO, this thing looks like junk." But we're not that kind of company. So I'm going to verify this this with gage blocks.

    I stll don't understand the difference in the USE and TEST knob. Any help on this part?

  12. #12
    Roscoe Splevins is offline Plastic
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    Ive just spent half an hour diddling with the setter and adjustments. With any combination of USE and TEST and any combination of screw adjustments, I can not get a change in the set height. Reads 0.005" tall at 2.000" gage block. Any suggestions?

  13. #13
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe Splevins View Post
    Ive just spent half an hour diddling with the setter and adjustments. With any combination of USE and TEST and any combination of screw adjustments, I can not get a change in the set height. Reads 0.005" tall at 2.000" gage block. Any suggestions?
    On mine, the test switch makes it so the indicator doesn't move much past 2.00 (2.001 actually). The use button allows it to move to 2.030". I don't understand the logic behind this, but the instructions are gibberish.

    I've had mine about 6 years so I fuzzy on the memory, but it seemed like I had to slightly force mine to get it to function the first time.

  14. #14
    Roscoe Splevins is offline Plastic
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    Default problem solved

    Simple solution: We will not set to 2.000". Tool setter "zero" is 2.004". We offset 2.004". Once operator loses interest in Z set gage, we will quietly dispose of it.

  15. #15
    Fadal Error is offline Aluminum
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    I must be the only one who sets part height off of the actual part. I have a set spot on the mill (the top surface of one vise) where I place the tool setter and dial each tool down to zero. My fixture offset Z zero is the distance from tool setter zero to the part's zero reference. This is established with one of the tools I will be using on the job touching off (not driving the tool down into it) a gage block on the part surface. So, most of the time the Z setting in my fixture offset is (-) and sometimes it is (+).

  16. #16
    JcMills is offline Plastic
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    Default CNC tool height setters.. blum z-nano the best laser the worst

    The 1 inch spacer block method is the cheapest and most accurate to get by for free but nothing compares to a blum z-nano hp tool setter flat out.... sets to millionths month after month. Touch off toolsetter. Large diameter tools can also be set to millionths. Worst of course are the laser setters and the renishaw setters of course are based upon poor design and designed to survive a crash. those setters and those types with the spindle sticking out and supposed to be able to check ods of cutter are of course the laughing stock of the setter industry and all skilled machinists. Off line and such methods usually are not cost effective except in unusual cases. If you follow the money a person will find that high tech setters (laser specifically) are designed to put money in the pocket of the seller and remove it from the pocket of the shopowner. Indicator and electric light up setters are visually enjoyable but cannot be trusted and based on flawed mechanics. Bad tool setting on cnc can be especially expensive to the point where people get shop vertigo and lost track of whats occuring as the tools cut or mismatches occur. The biggest indicator of this is when warm up programs start to be run--- losing even more money... thanks

  17. #17
    Boris is offline Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by JcMills View Post
    The 1 inch spacer block method is the cheapest and most accurate to get by for free but nothing compares to a blum z-nano hp tool setter flat out.... sets to millionths month after month. Touch off toolsetter. Large diameter tools can also be set to millionths. Worst of course are the laser setters and the renishaw setters of course are based upon poor design and designed to survive a crash. those setters and those types with the spindle sticking out and supposed to be able to check ods of cutter are of course the laughing stock of the setter industry and all skilled machinists. Off line and such methods usually are not cost effective except in unusual cases. If you follow the money a person will find that high tech setters (laser specifically) are designed to put money in the pocket of the seller and remove it from the pocket of the shopowner. Indicator and electric light up setters are visually enjoyable but cannot be trusted and based on flawed mechanics. Bad tool setting on cnc can be especially expensive to the point where people get shop vertigo and lost track of whats occuring as the tools cut or mismatches occur. The biggest indicator of this is when warm up programs start to be run--- losing even more money... thanks
    ??????

    Thats funny.... I get very good results with my M&I tool probe fitted to a 4 axis VMC, and we get just as good results with the blum laser tool setters fitted to the 5 axis.
    Oh well.. must be doing something wrong.. best check them in the offline tool setter... nope spot on there too. even down to using it to set a thread mill and getting the thread spot on first go.

    Guess its the old saying, its not what you got , but how you calibrate it

    Boris

  18. #18
    Question Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JcMills View Post
    Indicator and electric light up setters are visually enjoyable but cannot be trusted and based on flawed mechanics. Bad tool setting on cnc can be especially expensive to the point where people get shop vertigo and lost track of...
    What just happened?

    I wish I could figure out to set tools to meeelionths.

    QB

  19. #19
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadal Error View Post
    This is established with one of the tools I will be using on the job touching off (not driving the tool down into it) a gage block on the part surface.
    Can you explain this procedure?

  20. #20
    willbird is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    Can you explain this procedure?
    We used a .100 block. You just carefully run the tool down until the block will not slide under the cutter, put handle in .01, move up til it will fit, put handle in .001, move down til it will not slide under, go up one click at a time til it will slide under.

    faster done than said, you can go to .0001 if you want to, but for many tools there is no benefit.

    But the way we always used a tool setter was to put the difference between the part and the tool setter into the Z work offset.

    The fadal has a tool setting menu selection that lets you tell the machine the height of the gage block. We used the .100 wear blocks that were too worn to wring.

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